LUV Will Grow Little Or None In 2009

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Merchant,

I also had one of you jumpseating a couple of weeks ago and he was telling us all about how your new-hire classes are now mostly made up of the over 60 guys coming back to work. You do realize there is an impending lawsuit from the “over 60 guys” trying to get back their seniority. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

Bad info...We had one class of around 15 and there were a total of 21 who were interviewed and hired BUT a few were having problems getting a new medical. (If you have a waiver for any medical condition it's much easier to get renewed than to try to jump through the hoops with the FAA to get it back.) We did hire a few guys who took the lump sums elsewhere (Delta comes to mind!) and came over but they were all in their early 50's!

And by the way, AA767, One of your Kernal buddies over here who had a major hand in 65 is already on a push to go PaSt 65. Heard it straight from the horses mouth, SO maybe it all started with the Armed Services, the kindler gentler military should have never got away from "Blanket Parties" or "Code Reds" or whatever they wanna call them!!!.

I personally plan on retiring at 60 (or earlier) but I only have myself to blame for that if it doesn't happen!
KBB

 

[Patriot328]

Like I said, has SWAPA done anything to capitalize on their industry standing?? Have they improved your pay rates, retiree medical, increased pension benefits, or done anything about your worthless stock options?

In discussion now, and I bet we get a better deal than you will ever see in your lifetime.

I remember hearing the same quotes for UAL and DAL pilots when they got their contracts in 2000.

Careful with that ego scoreboard. It's a long fall.

 

[canyonblue]

HEY I CAN MAKE AN BS FACE MOTION TOO :crying:

That honestly is your best defense!?! I very sorry you feel that way cause it means you pay union dues for the equvalent of a limp dick (probably sop for you)...

Let me ask u a simple question was SWAPA pro or against age 65 before and during 2007? When you answer that and check your union dues statements from your paycheck in 2007 then feel free to critque. In the meantime, b!te me...

Come back when you're under .08. :beer:

 

[LuckyDad]

AA767
Quick question... if ICAO didnt really matter, how were ANY of the major airlines that have an international codeshare partner going to defend the position that it's safe to fly with a 60+ crew overseas, but not in the USA. I am not that familiar with AA, but do they have any international partners?
For the record, I was opposed to 65, but am not so shortsighted to believe it started or ended with SWAPA. Judging from your posts, I'd say there is enough hatred coming from you to spread it around a little more than just SWAPA...and by the way, the underlying jelousy is obvious.

 

[scoreboardII]

You really have no clue of the ominous impact for the entire industry you guys caused by the Age 65 ruling. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

You really live with your head in the sand don't you? Of course 65 is going to suck for 75% of all pilots, nobody discounts that. The difference is your goal is simply to point fingers and lay blame instead of dealing with it. It is a sad joke, only, your the punch line...

 

[MXAV8R]

Merchant,

Now let me ask you again – given your leading position in the industry, what has SWAPA actually done to improve our profession over the last five years besides giving us all Age 65?? How's your contract negotiations coming along or are you too busy giving love fests to Herb? .....

...I also had one of you jumpseating a couple of weeks ago and he was telling us all about how your new-hire classes are now mostly made up of the over 60 guys coming back to work. You do realize there is an impending lawsuit from the “over 60 guys” trying to get back their seniority. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

Dude this FOOL does not work for SWA. JoeMerch. works for ASA and is a TOOL.

 

[ultrarunner]

...I wasn't real keen on it either...I'll be a commuter for many more years now)...

Hold on a minute now....I ain't that smart an all...ya know, being a whitey from the south...but what the heck in the age 65 legislation prohibits you moving to your base????

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

AA767
Quick question... if ICAO didnt really matter, how were ANY of the major airlines that have an international codeshare partner going to defend the position that it's safe to fly with a 60+ crew overseas, but not in the USA. I am not that familiar with AA, but do they have any international partners?
For the record, I was opposed to 65, but am not so shortsighted to believe it started or ended with SWAPA. Judging from your posts, I'd say there is enough hatred coming from you to spread it around a little more than just SWAPA...and by the way, the underlying jelousy is obvious.

LuckyDad,


US pilots we were in the driver’s seat until worn down by the relentless assault on Age 65 driven first by a small group of Southwest pilots, then SWAPA, and then after 911, were aided by the senior pilots of the bankrupt legacies going for a quick money grab that resulted in the ominous legislation last December. When ALPA collapsed on the issue without having a majority, the game was basically over.


The more senior SWAPA guys were able to basically pull one over on their junior pilots since the junior guys just never figured they would have to live under the dubious effects of the legislation. It was a rule many of their pilots figured that would negatively affect others and not themselves. How ironic that just six short months after the legislation passed that the junior Southwest pilots will start to feel the stinging effects of what their senior brethren just pulled on them.


Keep in mind, just because some foreign pilots are flying past 60 shouldn’t mean squat to the US especially when it’s in the name of safety. The US was never a follower for international rules. That was never even a valid part of the argument.


Make no mistake about it – AGE 65 was all about taking money from the junior guy to make up either for an inadequate retirement plan or medical (as was the case of the Southwest pilots), outside economic events, or the terrorist acts of 911. What the senior pilots couldn’t negotiate with the company, they ultimately took from the junior guy’s portion to make up for their lack of success.

Age 65 passed with lighting speed through the back channels of Congress. Ever wonder why that was?? What happened was that the US pilots just helped the US government (and ICAO) to further merge our group towards being a seamless global pilot. Ever hear of cabatage?? McCain is a big supporter of it. Now explain to me how even the mighty Southwest in 5-10 years will be able to compete with some foreign pilot that makes about ¼ of your salary who is flying point to point across the US from say Love to Lubbock to Phoenix. Just remember, all the US government really cares about is cheap tickets to the mass public. They could care less about your jobs.


Now add to the current mess of the massive downsizing that is going to occur throughout the industry over the next few years and perhaps you can understand why I’m not too happy with SWAPA. SWAPA was in a position to do much good for the profession over the last decade but basically blew it and now the window is slamming closed again. Many families will be destroyed over the next few years as the industry downsizes and pilots lose their jobs -- this will only be compounded by Age 65.


While your senior guys basically went for a money grab and were looking out for only themselves, you will find out it will be a long-term mess that will have to be handled by the junior troops.


Am I envious of Southwest? Perhaps only of their management team, but certainly not the actions of SWAPA. No doubt Southwest has a great company and a solid management team. It’s just very unfortunate their pilots didn’t do more with the advantage they had. Herb basically shut down the pilots again. For that alone, he and his management team deserve a lot of credit.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[ultrarunner]

I thought it started in Europe with ICAO changing the rules to allow age 65...

Ski, I don't know if it started with the ICAO change, but that essentially fueled the fire.

As I said a long time ago, I expected 65 to pass, since, at the time, I did not think capitol hill would continue to allow the BK courts to strip the pensions AND require an age 60 retirement.

Timing is everything.

Time to press on.

 

[StopNTSing]

Hold on a minute now....I ain't that smart an all...ya know, being a whitey from the south...but what the heck in the age 65 legislation prohibits you moving to your base????

I'll try to make this as simple as possible. I'm a junior captain. I live outside PHX. I can't hold it as a Captain, and I don't want to be a Lance Cpt in PHX (that's SWA-speak for Cpt-qualified FO), so I commute to LAS (much less senior base). Since the Luke Mafia took over PHX a few years ago, PHX is well on it's way to becoming the most senior base at SWA for Captains. Hence, the only movement for PHX captains is RETIREMENTS...which just got pushed out five more years.

Clear as mud?