Lt Bush's direct comission

[JimNtexas]

I'm a retired regular USAF active duty nav, and a conservative republican. I've been engaged in some heated discussions with some liberal friends about President Bush's guard service. I'd appreciate if some the guard guys here could help me with a couple of nitnoy quesitons about Lt Bush and the Texas Guard way back in 68-73 timeframe.

There are enough scanned copies of Lt Bush's records around to convince me that he was in good standing for all his time in the Guard. Lt Bush went to UPT in 1968 and became MR in the F-102 in 1970. In the summer of 1972 his unit was phasing out the F-102 and phasing in the F-101. Lt Bush decided to leave flying and finish his obligation by attending meetings while he worked in Alabama. His last OER in 1973 documents this. The 'AWOL' stories are in error.

The only real anomoly I find in the record is this: Mr Bush applied for and was accepted by the Ellington Guard unit. He was sent to enlisted basic training. This struck me as odd. I would have expected a pilot candidate to go to OTS or AMS, not enlisted basic training. At the end of basic training he was direct comissioned as a second Lieutenant.

In my time I never met a line officer who was direct commissioned. Medical and legal officers, yes, but not pilots.

Does anyone, especially any old f*rts, know if it was routine for the Guard to send a a pilot candidate to basic and then give him a direct comission, back in the late 60s?

Oh, and while I'm here, on 1 Oct 73 Lt Bush was transfered from the Guard to the Reserve in 'ORS' status. What does 'ORS' stand for in this context?

thanks

 

[CCDiscoB]

I don't know the answer to your question, but there have been many different routes to becoming an officer back in those days. He's my theory. I believe aviation cadets were still around back then, which would explain your "enlisting" problem. Aviation cadets were E-5s in training. When they got their wings they got their gold bars too.

There's nothing odd about doing his "meeting" with another unit. That still happens today.

 

[pilotyip]

back in those days

Back is those days you had a total 5 year obligation for service if you took flight training, which explain his 5 years. At the end of 5 years, you had completed your active drilling commitment and if you elected to not continue your association you were transferred to the inactive reserve, so ORS could stand for Other Reserve Status. As far as the direct commission goes, there are many ways to skin a cat in filling the billets in your unit. I would imagine in 1968 people were not exactly flocking to the military and this unit may have had trouble filling billets, so you have authority to do a DA for a college grad Intel Officer, go to Officer orientation school during your first two week active duty period, we did this in the Navy Reserve. Once he is commissioned he puts in for flight training, Some have accused him of being a draft dodger, I do not see how joining the military could be considered draft dodging. The guy before him defined the term draft dodger. The ways thing were in 1968, why would anyone wait to be drafted, the Vietnam war was AFU by that time. My 1966 AOCS class had about 10% draft dodgers in it, guys who could not get into OCS at Newport because of the waiting list, but were in draft status and physically qualified for flight duty so they went to Pensacola, got their commission and DORed into some stateside billet.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I'm...a conservative republican. I've been engaged in some heated discussions with some liberal friends...

I don't know conservative Republicans had liberal friends.

 

[CCDiscoB]

More of an acquaintance actually.

 

[Chickenhawk]

I was accepted to the Navy's NAVCAD program in 1990 (went ROTC instead....but the point is) and through the program would've gone to flightschool still being enlisted getting E-5 pay. At the end of school I would've received my wings and commission on the same day. Many old flyers did this, and were encouraged, but not required, to get their degree after their first sea tour. Seems somewhat similar.

 

[scarface]

Many years ago while flying Beech 99s I flew with a Captain who had been a navigator in the Pa. Air National Guard. He told me he was direct commissioned and sent to nav training. There was a probationary period involved, but he did not attend OTS.
The time period would have been mid to late 60's.

 

[JimNtexas]

Thank you Scarface, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for. To my liberal friends "Bush is a coward" is an article of faith, and while I'll never convince them, it's fun to hear them rationalize all the evidence that's counter to their mistaken world view.

Jim

 

[Spur]

You might want to educate your "friends" on just what an F-102 is. A single engine, single seat, supersonic century series fighter -- designed back when engineers didnt know all that much about supersonic flight. But hey, what could possibly go wrong?! As of 1972 the F-102 had accumulated a total of 348 Class A mishaps, 54 Class B's and 70 pilots killed. Only 15 losses were in Vietnam.(ref. Hill Aerospace Museum)

He probably would have been safer in Vietnam with AlGore...

 

[Chunk]

What kills me is the vast majority of the hippies spouting off about the quality of Bush's military record have no military record of their own!

Chunk

 

[JimNtexas]

What kills me is the vast majority of the hippies spouting off about the quality of Bush's military record have no military record of their own!

Chunk

That is very often true. And none of them understand why the sailors on Lincoln were exicted and impressed when the President arrived on an S-3. To them it was a stunt. To me, it was leadership.

 

[dragon]

The Liberals are just upset that they will have to watch it (the carrier landing) over and over again. They don't even realize that the CVN was delayed in order to meet a scheduled pier time. After all, when you tell several thousand families that their loved ones will be home at a certain time you try to deliver!

Confusion to the liberals!

 

[pilotyip]

Ejection Seat Qualifed

Just think he was the only president who was ejection seat qualified prior to comming into office., I wonder if he did his recurrent?

 

[Chunk]

I read he had to do the full physiology, including the dunker. Seat re-qual for the S-3 is just a brief....no big deal.

 

[Chickenhawk]

JimNtexas wrote:

To them it was a stunt. To me, it was leadership.

Well Said!

 

[Counselair]

Re: Ejection Seat Qualifed

Just think he was the only president who was ejection seat qualified prior to comming into office., I wonder if he did his recurrent?

True... Not that it's a fun ride but his father didn't have the "luxury" of an ejection seat.

 

[kelbill]

Not sure about the commission source, but I flew with a SWA Captain who was in Bush's UPT class. Said he was very competitive, very nice, and finished 2nd, so he earned his fighter. As for the carrier landing, from what I know he just sat back for that and let the Squid do the landing right? I don't think he was flying then, but that is what most the media is implying. Regardless, it was pure leadership, and by golly, if the Commander in Chief can't get a ride onto one of his carriers, who the heck can?

 

[Chunk]

I don't think the media implied anything. It was quite clear that he wasn't flying the aircraft.

 

[ShawnC]

Re: Re: Ejection Seat Qualifed

True... Not that it's a fun ride but his father didn't have the "luxury" of an ejection seat.

I would give my right leg (after the flight, I still need to work the rudder) to fly his fathers airplane.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Bush was transferred to an AL unit, but he never showed up. He was AWOL for over a year. Other guard members who did what he did were put into the draft lottery, which was standard procedure.

Bush, Jr. (as opposed to his dad, the war hero) was given a slot in the guard because of his dad, as many rich kids were at the time. He was then given a pilot slot. He scored VERY low on the pilot exam, I believe around a 25%.

He was not punished for being AWOL for a year, and he wasn't put into a draft-elligible category because he was a rich man's kid.

Clinton and Bush did the same thing-they avoided the draft, which I think makes them poor candidates for president. McCain is a true American hero, and I believe he would've served his country well. Bush, Jr. is doing an excellent job serving his rich friends well, at the expense of everyone else.

If Kerry is nominated to run against Bush, I will vote for Kerry because he is a war hero, and not a draft-dodging rich kid.

Cliff
GRB
Air Medal, Iraq War I