LR-31 Pay

[miles otoole]

any YOU, fella, are the reason this happens.

I started on a Lear 35/31 at 38K/yr - 8 years ago. And trust me it was no dream job it was bottom of the barrel.

but hey, "gotta take em where you can get em" huh?

do us a favor - go to a regional. That mentality fits right in with the typical 20K/yr RJ FO.

scuse' me while I go puke.

Please tell us your proposed career path if you currently had 1200 hours as a CFI? In today's terms. In today's economy. If you are suggesting he can find a starting 38K a year job today, you are kidding yourself. Or are you simply suggesting that he give up his career aspirations so as not to drag down your current and future negotiating power?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

deleted.

 

[Bandit60]

Mine...

That's part of the problem today. People don't know what they are worth, or at least fail to demand what they're worth. $28,000 / year to bear the responsibility of operating a turbojet aircraft is an INSULT. Wal-Mart's aviation dept. pays Lear 31 F.O.'s $43,000 to start and first year Capt pay is about $70,000. Everyone there gets up to a 20% bonus on top of that. That area of the country is cheaper than most places in the Southeast.

I can name at least a dozen other operators that are in that ballpark as well. Gee whiz people. I don't know about the rest of you, but I say if you are truely qualified to be in the left seat of a jet $70,000 is not unreasonable. Where's Gulfstream 200??? He'll back me up on this...

Any other questions feel free to ask...

But is that a pilot that is a capt off the street or is that a person who has worked for the company and worked they up the ladder? Do they hire capt off the street?

Your a hawkerdriver, I would like to know what you think a fair pay is for a hawker pilot.

 

[Flybet3]

yeah yeah

Yea, but atleast he's able to pay his bills this month! I'm not saying you should all work for less just to have a job, but sometimes people don't have 5 or 6 dream jobs thrown at them at once! You gotta take em where you can get em sometimes!

Thank you User997...I agree with you all the way
Yeah, 28K is low...but I had to chose between a 28K a year, get typed job or a 18k a year sorry ass regional job. I think this job beats the hell out of any regional. Plus the benefits are pretty good. So dont go straight to saying that 28K is an insult just b/c you got lucky with a 40k job. Some of You guys talk as if you have always maod more than 40k a year

 

[Flybet3]

Deleted post

 

[Flybet3]

F You

G200 and 650Drivr hit the nail on the head.

As long as people are willing to whore themselves out to fly a jet nothing will change.

Well you know what SH!+ head I held on for almost 6 months and turned down a good number of jobs just b/c they didnt pay what I know I deserved. Having my wife go to work while all I could do was send resumes, until I get more qualified and competitive than I have to take this job. Imagine if you would've done that when you had 500 hours, tell a company to shove it just becuase you want to get paid 60K a year. They would tell you to shove it. So dont be arrogant now that you have a descent paying job, because if you say people are whoring them self for a job than you did it too. Or why did you become a CFI? because you loved it? PLEASE! dont be so full of crap, then that means that YOU whored your self as a CFI at very very very low pay just to build up multi time....we all want that higher paying job but I'm not going to sit my ass around at home for a whole year sending resumes thinking that a company is going to hire me (someone who hasnt flown) over a guy that is current. WAKE UP, YOU ARROGANT DOOSH BAGS!! some of you just got lucky...so dont act as if you went into an interview an told the company "HA! 40K? screw you! I'm worth 80K"

 

[Flybet3]

again

yeah.

You're the only one who has worried about their job and where the next one is going to be.....really, none of us have been there, ever......please..

We have ALL been there, but the difference is many of us have said FUK NO to the 28K/yr job and took our chances holding out for better. IF more of us did this it would'nt be so hard. Folks that come along and say "ya gotta take what ya can" simply deserve to be taken out back and biatch slapped until they go to work at Netjets.

It's not as bad as many bottom dwelling, no confidence pilots think it is....I simply cant believe Im the only one who has found 99% of the jobs I looked at paid pretty fair. Nobody ever offered me 28K/yr to fly thier jet!! then again, maybe I knew where not to look...

28K is absurd. Stop entertaining this now. Just go to work at a regional or netjets and get it over with.

My family would never (and couldn't) accept 28K/yr - . My wife would go back to work while I spent the time looking for better. Heck, after CFI'ing I could'nt live myself - nevermind a family - on 28K/yr. Why should I?

Its called pride and self worth. Lets keep it going for everyone.

ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE AN ARROGANT DOOSH BAG!! and if you dont mind having your wife work for months and pay the bills while you stay home, send resumes and probably scratch your bolas! than thats you.

 

[Flybet3]

whatever

If I had a mortgage and a family to feed, and mind you-- I have been laid off due to 9/11, the economy, etc.etc.etc.... I WOULD NOT accept the low ball $28k if that were given to me on a silver platter... First, know the industry scale, and what you can accept. If I needed $40k for example to feed my family, it would be really STUPID to take that position (even though it was a JET JOB...) so, yes, it may take longer to find one that will not allow you to slave yourself, and you know what, there are well paid jobs out there, aviation or non-aviation... lesson is, feed yourself and your family, put a roof over your head, don't be selfish about your own desires to be a "jet pilot" if you can't afford it. It sounds as if this person who is working for $28k is happy and content with the money and is not going hungry.

Secondly, companies that accept whores to work for them will eventually go broke, or learn the lesson to pay descent wages.

Its not that I am happy 100% about the 28K...and yeah, there might be jobs out there in lears that pay above 28K, but the ones that I have seen either want a current and qualified pilot or someone that is willing to pay for their own type. Secondly its not just about flying a jet, I could fly a single engine piston if it paid well. The day you find a 40K job flying a cessna 172 you let me know. I had to chose, either take this job, a job that will get me typed and help me stay current, put some food on the table for my family and help me become more qualified or be arrogant like you and sit around for a couple of more months keep my self not current and act as if there are a million jobs out there that pay great money and I am the only pilot in the US.

 

[pa56pa]

The day you find a 40K job flying a cessna 172 you let me know. I had to chose, either take this job, a job that will get me typed and help me stay current, put some food on the table for my family and help me become more qualified or be arrogant like you and sit around for a couple of more months keep my self not current and act as if there are a million jobs out there that pay great money and I am the only pilot in the US.

__________________
My name is Maria


Ahh, and a chip on your shoulder too.. can't blame you for being too defensive after being bashed on here... I understand your situation, like I said... you're obviously happy with the job and $28K will get you somewhere in your career... doesn't make us making more than that "arrogant and sitting around for a couple of more months keepin ourselves 'not current' bla bla bla... "

We simply would not whore ourselves to accept that figure as the living conditions would not justify the $$ being taken in... simple as that. However, in your case, being you're in the Southeast somewhere where you can still rent a house for $500/ month probably.. lol, which is unheard of in alot of places in the country... you may be very happy and content (which I've state several times) with it.... Best of luck in your new career!

and btw,

yea right... like you'll switch your jet job for a C172 job even if it paid $40k... LOLOL !! get real! all we're really saying is this...

THAT YOU REALIZE THAT IN THIS INDUSTRY, $28K IS LOW FOR THE POSITION YOU'VE TAKEN.. and if you're OK with it.. well, that's GREAT! :0)

Signed,
Non-arrogant

 

[AA717driver]

Considering some of my friends are flying Captain on a 747 for $85k it's kind of tough to criticize others for doing the same thing. He!!, I'm working for below industry standard.

BUT... None of my friends are planning to do this forever. If my pay doesn't progress the way it should historically I'll start looking.

The only defense against low pay is to try to get something better. Flybet won't change anything by standing on principle and sitting on the couch. He'll take the job and start looking for something better.

OTOH, if the QOL at this company is worth making below standard he should stay.

JMO.TC

 

[HMR]

The day you find a 40K job flying a cessna 172 you let me know.

I'm sitting next to a stack of my old tax returns. A couple years ago I made $40,480 flying a 172. I was a CFI. I think they're making more now.

 

[HawkDrvr]

But is that a pilot that is a capt off the street or is that a person who has worked for the company and worked they up the ladder? Do they hire capt off the street?

Your a hawkerdriver, I would like to know what you think a fair pay is for a hawker pilot.

I used to be a Hawker 800 driver in the Midwest, currently the company I used to work for is paying 55,000 to start as F.O. and about $80,000 as first year Capt. si I would expect more in the Northeast for example...

I was hired as a 31a Capt. at $70,000 in the Southeast. As for Wal-Mart's numbers they do not hire Capt's from the street but who cares??? A Capt is a Capt... A you trying to tell me that one hired off the street is somehow worth less the one promoted from within. Please get a clue...

By the way, I don't think that is fair pay, I KNOW IT IS... Period, end of discussion. Also, please lighten up a bit.

You people just make it hard for department's to go in to budget meetings with the boss and justify fair pair rates. Without fail the comment is made, "XYZ down the road doesn't pay their pilots this much..." I fortunately work for someone who understand that they get what they pay for.

 

[Flybet3]

thank you

Considering some of my friends are flying Captain on a 747 for $85k it's kind of tough to criticize others for doing the same thing. He!!, I'm working for below industry standard.

BUT... None of my friends are planning to do this forever. If my pay doesn't progress the way it should historically I'll start looking.

The only defense against low pay is to try to get something better. Flybet won't change anything by standing on principle and sitting on the couch. He'll take the job and start looking for something better.

OTOH, if the QOL at this company is worth making below standard he should stay.

JMO.TC

Thank you AA717driver, that's all I am saying....I'm not ok with 28k a year, why? b/c I know there are companies out there that pay more. But once again, they want qualified pilots. I am already looking at other companies for future employment. But I atleast owe my company a year of service before even thinkning about leaving. But lets face it pretty much the whole **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** industry is underpaid right now, and if you guys say that I'm whoring my self for a job at 28k, than you're saying that regional guys are whoring them selves for 20k flying bigger aircraft and also even regional captains are whoring them selves for 60k or 70k flying a 50 seat passenger jet. I had to chose between a 28k job, no commuting OK QOL, good benefits or commuting, 18K and bad QOL. When you have been drowning for 6 months you dont wait for a Yatch you have to take the first boat. Plus for all you doosh bags FYI I'm 21 years old, I cant get an ATP yet, so a lot of companies that paid better needed an ATP Type rated pilot. Like I said I HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE....maybe once I reach the age of 30, 40 or 50 and I have 8k hours of flight time I can be as stuck up as alot of you guys. As someone who was very wise once said, "you have to be faithful in the small things, so you can be faithful in the great things"....

 

[Bandit60]

I used to be a Hawker 800 driver in the Midwest, currently the company I used to work for is paying 55,000 to start as F.O. and about $80,000 as first year Capt. si I would expect more in the Northeast for example...

I was hired as a 31a Capt. at $70,000 in the Southeast. As for Wal-Mart's numbers they do not hire Capt's from the street but who cares??? A Capt is a Capt... A you trying to tell me that one hired off the street is somehow worth less the one promoted from within. Please get a clue...

By the way, I don't think that is fair pay, I KNOW IT IS... Period, end of discussion. Also, please lighten up a bit.

You people just make it hard for department's to go in to budget meetings with the boss and justify fair pair rates. Without fail the comment is made, "XYZ down the road doesn't pay their pilots this much..." I fortunately work for someone who understand that they get what they pay for.

I just don't believe that 70000 is a standard starting pay for a 31 capt in the southeast. The nbaa numbers are not starting pay numbers. Those numbers include pilots that have been flying for the company for years and have built up their salaries. I am all for more pay, but I don't like when people artificially make them higher than they really are.

My point about a capt off the streets verses a person who makes capt from within is that the person who has worked for the company for years as an FO will sometimes get more pay for Capt when they upgrade than one that comes from off the street. This is all due to the amount of years they have put in with the company.

 

[HawkDrvr]

"I am all for more pay, but I don't like when people artificially make them higher than they really are. "


Nothing artificial about those numbers. Or didn't you read FalconCapt's post quoting the NBAA's numbers??? I have got a copy of the Stanton Group's Industrial Flight Compensation Survey I could show you as well.

Whatever man, just trying to help you out. If you think that 28,000/yr. (which is at least $12,000 under industry average) is acceptable, go for it. The only problem with that logic is that you are only helping to create yet another toilet aviation job.

I am just trying to tell you what the facts are, don't shoot the messenger.




"WAKE UP, YOU ARROGANT DOOSH BAGS!! some of you just got lucky...so dont act as if you went into an interview an told the company "HA! 40K? screw you! I'm worth 80K"

No luck here my friend, worked my rear end off. Even shoveled dog crap at a kennel to pay for my CFI training. Then instructed while living off Mac/Cheese, then made my break by networking in to Corporate.

You make your own luck on this planet....

For the record, I haven't told a company "screw you", but I have politely declined around 3 positions due to low pay...