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Low Hours/HighTime

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Geoff Huppe

nobscot
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Posts
11
I need help again. I have 450 hours, 100 dual given. Been away from home for so long I've forgotten what my kids look like. I need to know how to get going faster towards getting hired. I know of ARI-BEN aviators and ATP should I go to thier fast paced schools? I am 48 years old a cfi and soon will have cfii. Time is now critical, I need a job!

Thanks to all
 
Not to dash your hopes, but consider your current & future career expectations.

At 48, you'll only have 12 years for a 121 career (17 if Age 60 is extended to 65). With such low time, your options in charter & corporate will be extremely limited unless you are well connected. If you keep building experience, you could potentially be a 10 year 121 regional pilot, retiring as a captain at age 60 after being a captain for only 4-7 years. Where would that put you and your family financially for a retirement?

ATP has a good reputation, but getting an interview will cost you $$$ in their program, so will Mesa Airlines Pilot Development.

Avoid Gulfstream/Tab/Jet University or any other PFT operator like the plague. At your age it'd be the fastest way where you want to go, but the potential financial implications of it could be staggering.

Good luck with your decision!
 
I would highly recommend Gulfstream.

Actually, I would agree with BoilerUP in regards to TAB and JetU. Gulfstream is a whole different story.
1) Unlike TAB, Gulfstream is still in business
2) Unlike JetU, has an established airline, and like it or not, has delivered what was promised to many low-time pilots for 5+ years

Don't get me wrong, It's still PFT, but you'll get the 121 experience you'll need to get an interview at some regional.

No matter what your choice, good luck, and have fun!
 
Avoid Gulfstream/Tab/Jet University or any other PFT operator like the plague. At your age it'd be the fastest way where you want to go said:
I second that,,, if you shell out 30 grand for a job, you my never see a profit from your new career. If your looking to build time fast, once you get 1200 hours instructing find a outfit that hauls checks, they are usually hiring anybody that shows up, your time will skyrocket and before you know you'll have a chance at some good charter/corporate jobs that pay much better than a regional will in your first fews years, or ever will for that matter. Im not saying that your old by any means, but considering the retirement age and time for upgrade at the 121 regionals, your best bet is to make the private sector your ultimate goal. Just my opinion though.
 
Thanks!

Thanks to all of you. Your input is great. I have been at this awhile. I am a retired high school teacher. My retirement home is built and paid for. I will have enough to live on and I will support my family as well as I can with a regional salary. I am not worried about making it till I'm 60 or 65. I am worried about making it...period. I have set this to be my goal and I will do it. I am going to be a professional (not flight instructor) pilot, I need to be hired sooner than later. At 80 to 100 hours a week it will be 6 months or more. I am currently living away from home to acheive this goal because I could only get 20 hours per month at home in Western NY. So I am in FLA. Away from my family. 6 months seems too long.

There is a place where you "buy" multiengine hours for time building. The school is called ARI-BEN. They fly Duchesses. I have asked everyone I know where I could get the majik 100 hours multi without paying but insurance trumps me with such low me time. This is why I'm asking for help.

If anyone knows someone who went to the school I would like to know. I do not want to spend alot of needless money at ATP or Gulfstream. I have my CFI and I am instructing.

Again...thanks,

Geoff
 
I've been considering asking ARI BEN for a deal where I'd work as instructor while also buying hours in their hour building program. Could easily pay for 100 hours but end up with an extra 400 ME dual given. If ARI BEN would play it that way, that is.
 
If you want to get on with the regionals faster (just like everyone does), you will have to pay for it. Otherwise, you can pay your dues like everyone else. If you can get your MEI at the school you are instructing for, you should be able to get some multi students and build time that way. If the school doesn't allow this, then you are at the wrong school. Otherwise, be prepared to shell out some good cash to get your multi time. Also, there is no "magic 100 hours" of multi. You will be interviewing against people with much more time than that, unless you go to a turboprop operator with very low hiring minimums.
 
Since you're the perfect age for that program, I would try Mesa Pilot Development. It's 10-15k if you don't have the multi and it takes 2 or 3 months. MPD is justified in your case. If you say no to MESA, what I would do is go to a multi-engine time building session at ATP or Ariben, immediately. You are very close to the minimums for a few regionals such as expressjet or pinnacle, just focus on getting your multi engine time rather than instructing. If you already have multi engine time then, I'd just stick to what you're doing, regionals hire now below 1000 hours so it's not going to take as long as you think.
 
Honest answer. Fly for fun. Work in the mouse maze and provide properly for your family. Take the extra you will make there and rent a plane for fun. At that age just getting started you will waste your savings to reap nothing but an ulcer.
 
Geoff Huppe said:
I have set this to be my goal and I will do it. I am going to be a professional (not flight instructor) pilot

I have to say that I took great offense to this statement. While CFIs are underpaid they are the core of this industry. If you can not be a "professional" CFI then how can you be a professional pilot? I, like you, started to wonder "will it ever happen" around your flight time. Looking back on it I was at the stage where it felt a little like a job for the first time. Unfortunately, this is very difficult to slow down I have found. Every day a pilot gos to work, especially with low time, it feels more and more like a job. It feels more and more like a job because it is a job (If that is what you have chosen to make it of course). What keeps me at it is the fact that it is a job doing something I love. If I could eliminate all the politics involved in aviation it would be fun 24/7, but that will never happen because it is a big money business. Good luck to you and I wish you the best of luck building your time. This business takes more patience than any one person really has. Now that I am done with my rant I only ask that you please take the time to do one thing, go to your FOI book and look up "professional." Hopefully you will learn that in your current position you are more of a professional than 99.9% of "real pilots" out there as a CFI.
 
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What I meant by Professional, other than CFI, was that I would like to work as a pilot in another position that CFI. I have been a teacher for 20 years. I do know that a CFI is a professional pilot. Please do not take offense. At my age I just feel as if the process, and it is a process, is taking forever and my patience is wearing thin. Ask my students if they think I am a professional. I lost one the other day because I wouldn't let him wear flip flops! Was I over the top?
 
Any chance of your family joining you in Florida for the next 6 mo.? Although, there seem to be some airlines that are hiring at lower times than 1000 hours. I'm just a shade under 900 hours, and I've already had a couple interviews (the companies just weren't the right "setup" for me, but that's beside the point), so it might not be the 6 mo. grind that you are anticipating. Instruct a another month or two, send out some resumes and see what happens.

Good luck to you!
-Goose
 
Geoff Huppe said:
What I meant by Professional, other than CFI, was that I would like to work as a pilot in another position that CFI. I have been a teacher for 20 years. I do know that a CFI is a professional pilot. Please do not take offense. At my age I just feel as if the process, and it is a process, is taking forever and my patience is wearing thin. Ask my students if they think I am a professional. I lost one the other day because I wouldn't let him wear flip flops! Was I over the top?

Oh, and it is a process. It's been five years of tribulation to get to this point--and I turn 30 next week. I sometimes feel a bit 'behind the curve,' but when I look back and see all that I have accomplished, it is worth it. I truly enjoy instructing though.

-Goose
 
I need help again. I have 450 hours, 100 dual given. Been away from home for so long I've forgotten what my kids look like. I need to know how to get going faster towards getting hired. I know of ARI-BEN aviators and ATP should I go to thier fast paced schools? I am 48 years old a cfi and soon will have cfii. Time is now critical, I need a job!

No experience and just getting started, and you're critical and need a job? Did you want tenure in your first teaching assignment...or did you have to put in your dues, learn to walk before you could run, and build your career like everyone else?

You have no experience, you are at the entry level, and now you're critical...now you must have employment outside instructing?

Instruct for a year or more. Then find something different, if you like. Fly freight for a year or two in a Cessna 210 and move to a light twin. Do that for a year. Then find something else.

At four hundred fifty hours, you're just nearly to the point where you are qualified to open the aircraft door. And you want a jump start into your career...get some experience, then get a job. To everything there is a season. Your season presently is flight instruction; enjoy it.
 
avbug said:
At four hundred fifty hours, you're just nearly to the point where you are qualified to open the aircraft door. And you want a jump start into your career...get some experience, then get a job. To everything there is a season. Your season presently is flight instruction; enjoy it.

Oh, and it goes quick. I have as many hours of dual given as you do total (Geoff, not avbug), yet it doesn't seem quite possible.

-Goose
 
Geoff Huppe said:
What I meant by Professional, other than CFI, was that I would like to work as a pilot in another position that CFI. I have been a teacher for 20 years. I do know that a CFI is a professional pilot. Please do not take offense. At my age I just feel as if the process, and it is a process, is taking forever and my patience is wearing thin. Ask my students if they think I am a professional. I lost one the other day because I wouldn't let him wear flip flops! Was I over the top?

Thank you. I may have misunderstood.

Are you dead set on only flying for the airlines?

The flops...... Open toed shoes have no business on a ramp. While I may have let it go, if you approached it as a "safety concern" you were not over the top.
 
Avbug...do you have a family? The Airlines are the way I would like to proceed. That is my goal. I am not sure why you are so inflamed with my choice. It is obvious I need more time. That is what training is for...correct? Perhaps they'll show me how to open the door.
 
Geoff Huppe said:
Avbug...do you have a family? The Airlines are the way I would like to proceed. That is my goal. I am not sure why you are so inflamed with my choice. It is obvious I need more time. That is what training is for...correct? Perhaps they'll show me how to open the door.

Time line for me. It may give you a feel for what to expect, my career has been about on par with all my buddies from flight school.

Flight Instructed 2 years.

Flew part 135 freight for 2.5 years

Flew Regional for 3 Years Made Captain got PIC time for Majors.

Flew for a Major for 2.5 years, got furloughed

Flight instructed for another 10 months

Flew Corporate for 3 years, collected another couple of type ratings. Flight department shut down, sold airplane.

Flew for a 747 cargo outfit for 1.5 years, got furloughed..

Currently flying contract work and doing house renovation on the side while waiting on the next major to call (Hopefully!!)

Basically I have been a professional pilot for roughly 15 years and I am still in the same boat as you right now, making ends meet and hunting a job, only difference is that I have more hours.

Of course your milage may vary, but this timeline is common for pilots of my group. Currently in my upper middle 30's......hows that for a way of saying I am pushing 40!!!!:eek:
 
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Avbug...do you have a family? The Airlines are the way I would like to proceed. That is my goal. I am not sure why you are so inflamed with my choice. It is obvious I need more time. That is what training is for...correct? Perhaps they'll show me how to open the door.

I am not inflamed. I said nothing about your choice. I made no reference to family. It's you that believes time is critical. It's you that believes at 450 hours you should make the move to the airlines, that time has run out for you, that you can't wait, that you're ready...

You're not.

I am 48 years old a cfi and soon will have cfii. Time is now critical, I need a job!

You have a job. Flight instruct. You haven't even achieved your instrument instructor yet...you're still in training. Finish training, go to work, get some experience, and then work up through the ranks like everybody else.

Walk before you try to run. Crawl before you try to walk. Time isn't that critical that you need to run before you can crawl.
 
Geoff Huppe said:
What I meant by Professional, other than CFI, was that I would like to work as a pilot in another position that CFI. I have been a teacher for 20 years. I do know that a CFI is a professional pilot. Please do not take offense. At my age I just feel as if the process, and it is a process, is taking forever and my patience is wearing thin. Ask my students if they think I am a professional. I lost one the other day because I wouldn't let him wear flip flops! Was I over the top?

I hear what you're saying. Most CFI's are starting out, retired or part time hobbyists. None of that means you can't behave professionally in a CFI job or do a professional job of it. It's just that there are few CFI jobs out there that provide a real, full time living.
 
Geoff I think I may be able to help you out, seeing as you asked in the first place if anybody had been through the Ari-Ben training school and I have.

My situation is very different to yours, yet quite similar in a way, here's my story...

I'm a dual US/Australian citizen, mum from Michigan, born and raised in Sydney Australia. I began flying in September 2004 (2 years ago today actually). I completed my private license at a flight school in Sydney and towards the end of my private license I realised that I LOVED aviation and wanted to get the rest of my ratings and fly professionally.

Seeing as my grandparents live in Florida ("because they're over 65 and that's the law" - Jerry Seinfeld) and seeing as Florida has some of the best flight schools and some of the best weather in the country for flying, I chose Florida as the place to continue my aviation training because I had somewhere free to live, and because I figured that I could get the stuff done faster in FL than anywhere else in the US.

I was soooo right. I chose American Flyers in PMP as the school to get my IRA and CAX ASEL and began training with them on 9/16/2005. I know alot of people knock Flyers because they charge higher prices than the norm (and that's true) but the instructors really knew their stuff and I was able to complete my IRA and commercial in one month each, including having to do about 80 hours of timebuilding in a cheaper Cessna which I rented elsewhere.

Once I completed my commercial single I went up to Ft Pierce to get my multi rating and time-building done at Ari-Ben Aviator. I'd heard instructors and students at Flyers talking about the program up there and decided it was the right way to go. Another good decision. I have to say I really lucked out since I got to the US in that nearly every big aviation decision I made really paid off for me.

At Ari-Ben I dropped 8k and did my multi commercial instrument rating and built time until I had 100 hours multi in the duchess. That was a load off. I now had the rating and the prized 100 multi that the regionals and most multi-engine operators look for.

I completed my CFI-II at American Flyers in January this year and as soon as I'd completed them I began work at Flyers, worked my butt off and in the 6 months between 3/1/06 and 9/1/06 I'd taken my total time from 330 to 750. 420 hours total time at 70hrs per month average. Not so bad considering April and June were slow for us.

Interviewed with ExpressJet on August 14th with 700/110, was hired, and I'm beginning my training class in IAH tomorrow (9/11). I promise you once you have that 100 multi you ARE COMPETITIVE as long as you interview well. I prepared well, knew my stuff and was hired with relatively low time especially when considering that alot of guys who weren't hired had over 1500 tt with 300+ multi.
Then again, maybe it was just the Aussie accent (jk).

As I said, my situation is different to yours. I'm a 23 yr old single guy, with no mortgage, no commitments and no family to speak of besides my gparents here in FL and a few aunts and uncles. But my situation is similar in that just 3-4 months ago I was in precisely your shoes, 500+/- total time, and instructing.

My advice to you is to get your 100 hrs multi at Ari-Ben, get your total time up to about 650-700 and send out your resume, you might get an interview or two, and then it's up to you to sell yourself.

As I said, I had low time, I'm young... hell I haven't even finished my bachelor's degree yet. I thought during the interview process that I didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting hired, yet here I am packing my bags for Houston tomorrow.

Chase your dreams, Geoff... the hell with the naysayers ;)

Connaz
 
Black Hawk said:
I hear what you're saying. Most CFI's are starting out, retired or part time hobbyists. None of that means you can't behave professionally in a CFI job or do a professional job of it. It's just that there are few CFI jobs out there that provide a real, full time living.

That's very true.

One thing I like about flight instructing is it's a new experience.....every day and every flight.

If you really want to get to the airlines, use your flight instructing time to learn. Your goal at this point should be to be the best CFI you can possibly be. I have learned more by flight instructing than I ever could have learned going to some FMS Standardization Training Course.

My problem started when I struggled to pay the bills CFI'n. It's not uncommon for CFIs to struggle, so I started doing other odd's n ends. My hobby became ferry flights. That gave me quite a bit of experience and I was able to apply lots of my knowledge gained from being a CFI to some of these flights.

It wasn't too long before the hours started adding up. I'm at the point now where I could probably qualify for most regional airlines interviews. Does that make me qualified to pilot 50 people around at 350 in an RJ? I'm not sure...I guess that's up to the airlines to decide (if I wanted to go that route). I at least feel like at this point I'm much more qualified than when I was some smartass kid with 250 hours straight out of school thinking I knew it all.

My point here is to enjoy what you're doing now, do some instrument instruction...have a student get you almost inverted trying to intercept the LOC and freeze up on the controls so you get to recover. Maybe even toss on the MEI and really scare the crap out of yourself.

Flight time is cheap as avbug I'm sure will tell you...$.89 for a bic pen, $5.00 for a six pack and over the weekend you too can have enough hours to do whatever you want. What you need is experience.

Those certificates are all licenses to learn. Use them for what they're for...you'll get where you want to be. Just be patient.

Good luck!

-mini
 
Interesting thread guys. I took my first flight lesson about 5 1/2 years ago. Since then, I earned all my ratings, bought an airplane, built time, did a little flight instruction, flew corporate and charter, flew for 2 regionals...then gave up the dream....because that is exactly what it was...a dream. If money is not important to you...any money...then definately fly for a "living". I decided that earning a comfortable salary and building a reliable retirement account was more important to me than flying. I hated the decision mind you, but I figured that I could still fly for fun...and I have found it to be so much more enjoyable than the airline lifestyle. Thats just me though...I heard (maybe on this site) and strongly agree with: "Being an airline pilot is a great job, but a terrible career". By the way Geoff, my sim partner at XJet was on his second career and 48 years old. Good luck!
 

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