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Low flying ATA 737

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FN FAL, I don't think that's what Bart said at all. I certainly didn't take it that way. Maybe you are a little sensitive? Maybe you are racist. Is that what YOU are really trying to say?
Typical Democrat response...talking both sides of the coin...kind of kerryish of you I might say.

Bart totally jumped up and PRE-JUDGED the man based on appearances and race, showing his racial profiling trump card. I merely pointed it out.

You then accuse me of being both too sensitive and then racist. Come on...you can do better than that...kerry lover.
 
I talked to the FO on that flight and he said that that had to go wide because Southwest was going wide on the approach. Chances are that Southwest was going wide because DL, CO, AA, and DL, especially DL were going wide. They are not based here at MDW so they dont really know how ATC wants it done.
 
Flymach2 said:
Hi...

That expert is Jim Tilman. He's been a Chicago fixture for as long as I can remember...and I lived there from 1963 to 1992. Mr. Tilman has logged over 20 thousand hours and, well, I think I'd lend him an ear if he was talking about aviation. :)

CAT D radius is 2.3 miles.

Regards

Didn't he get canned from American on some medical disablilty scam?
 
Bandit60 said:
Bart...

I'm not defending the aviation expert, but Jim Tillman is a retired United Airlines Capt.

Pretty sure he worked for American. Back in the 80's he would fly a round in the morning and be back in time to do the weather in the afternoon for NBC. I think he had to "retire" from American when he tried to sue a cab company when the cab he was in got in an accident. The court case got some media attention. American basically wondered how he could fly an airplane with the injuries he claimed to sustain.
 
bart said:
Boy, get a load of the "Aviation Expert". Quite polished, looks more like an anchor from a second tier market.
FN FAL said:
What's the matter Bart? Is it Hard for you to believe a "Jigga Boo" could be an aviation expert? Is that what YOU WERE REALLY TRYING TO SAY?
DCitrus9[/i] [B]FN FAL said:
Typical Democrat response...talking both sides of the coin...kind of kerryish of you I might say.

Bart totally jumped up and PRE-JUDGED the man based on appearances and race, showing his racial profiling trump card. I merely pointed it out.

You then accuse me of being both too sensitive and then racist. Come on...you can do better than that...kerry lover.
Well... what a rational, reasoned response, FN FAL. To the casual observer, it appears that YOU are the sensitive one, and the one who must resort to name-calling and distraction to continue the discussion.

Bart did not PRE-JUDGE - - he made a judgment based on what he saw and heard. So did you and everyone else.

Bart said NOTHING about race -- you did.

Bart said nothing about political affiliation -- you did.

I wonder why DCitrus9 suggested you might be racist. Could it be because YOU introduced a racial slur to the conversation?!?!

I personally don't know Jim Tilman from the man in the moon ( I had to think "Tilman, Tilman... where have I heard that name? OH! Pat Tilman, the NFL guy that volunteered to serve his country and was recently killed. Obviously this is not THAT Tilman. OK, I guess I've never heard of THIS guy."), but I was not impressed with his "aviation expert" input to the story. He is not a polished speaker, he went to the stadium announcer for his "expert testimony" (what, the FAA was unavailable for comment?) and he snickers and giggles at the stadium announcer's use of "kiss my ass." Oh yes, a consummate professional if I've ever seen one. Or read one - - you see, you can get the VERY SAME impression simply by reading the text of the article, where you can't see the color of the writer's skin.

As DCitrus9 so wisely observed, an aviation expert who was truly interested in the promotion and defense of aviation would be providing a plausible explanation for the event and reassuring the masses, rather than playing to the panic and allowing ignorance to perpetuate the fears of his audience.

Only an idiot would even consider skin color.
 
"I think the only reasonable solution to this is to shut down all air traffic within a 20 nm radius of downtown Chicago until they figure out exactly why that plane was so low so far out from MDW!"

I think Daley is pushing for shutting down the whole country until this "drama" has been solved!
 
yeah, what Tony said.

FN FAL, you continue to judge people and attempt to label them. Once again, you are wrong. It is not germaine to this discussion, but I'll share my voting record with you. I always view each election as a fresh start. I don't follow party lines. Actually I dislike many facets of each party. However in the last ten years (for as long as I have been able to vote) I have pulled the lever for all republicans. I hate Kerry, and take it as an insult that you compare me to him.
 
i'm interested in hearing what dailey has to say about this. since meigs was such a "security threat" and now without it, that pinko, planes are allowed to fly lower and closer to populated areas. that's the message i took from the aviation expert reporter's story. it's just another attempt by the media to scare the public and using aviation as the means - again!
 
I think it is about time the mayor of that city destroy MDW because it has become a threat to the city. I believe Meigs was destroyed because he didnt want airplanes flying over the city.

Oh ya, maybe he should shut down ORD also since some of the appoaches fly over the city also.
 
TonyC said:
As DCitrus9 so wisely observed, an aviation expert who was truly interested in the promotion and defense of aviation would be providing a plausible explanation for the event and reassuring the masses, rather than playing to the panic and allowing ignorance to perpetuate the fears of his audience.

Only an idiot would even consider skin color. [/B]

You nailed it ......
 
FN FAL said:
What's the matter Bart? Is it Hard for you to believe a "Jigga Boo" could be an aviation expert? Is that what YOU WERE REALLY TRYING TO SAY?

I hope this post was made under the influence of mind altering substances, because you are way off. Jim Tilmon was an American Airlines Captain, hired in the mid 1960's, who had a fairly uneventful career. In the early 1990's he was in a passenger in a taxi that got into an accident. He claimed, in the lawsuit against the cab company and driver, that he had career ending whiplash (during the big whiplash award days) that would prevent him from performing his job as an airline pilot - of course while continuing to fly his morning turns and doing the evening TV weather.

Tilmon won hid multi-million dollar case and, unfortunately for him, attracted attention from American Airlines and the FAA. He basically retired before he was fired or lost his medical.

So... the TV viewing public of Chicago has been sentenced to Jim Tilmon's rambling, nearly incoherent daily weather reports and occasional "expert" opinion on aviation matters for the past twenty five years. I am a vigorous supporter of equal opportunity employment, but Jim Tilmon sets the whole process back decades. I can't seem to get the video from the CBS feed of the ATA incident to run, probably since we live in (unfortunately) a Windows-driven world, but I can just picture the solemn tone and grave speech Mr. Tilmon used to relate the 'poor judgement of the ATA Captian' over the Sox game last night - based on nothing but the shaky video shot from the Comiskey (I'll never call the place US Cellular Field) press box.

FNFAL, pick another subject if you want to illustrate how conservative society has done the brothers a disservice. Jim Tilmon is not your poster child.
 
I was not fermiliar with the Cab accident story, but I also know TIlman took some heat for is expert opinoin on TWA 800, while on NBC. American was not too happy about is reporting and everybody knowing he was an American Pilot. Sometimes as a pilot my self, I can't believe the stuff that comes out of his mouth. NBC even was a little but off by it. Now if NBC would just can that guy on NBC national news. I can't even think of his name right now, I just turn the channel when he speaks is aviation BS. Daily probably loves both of these guys. I can see them all drinking some coffee in public place chantting the sky is falling, the sky is falling, oh my god the sky is falling!!!!
 
"FNFAL, pick another subject if you want to illustrate how conservative society has done the brothers a disservice. Jim Tilmon is not your poster child."

Conservative society what?
 
FN FAL, you continue to judge people and attempt to label them. Once again, you are wrong. It is not germaine to this discussion, but I'll share my voting record with you. I always view each election as a fresh start. I don't follow party lines. Actually I dislike many facets of each party. However in the last ten years (for as long as I have been able to vote) I have pulled the lever for all republicans. I hate Kerry, and take it as an insult that you compare me to him.
...I'll agree with you on that...the kerry lover thing was a cheap shot. All of the left scares the hell out of me and half of the right as well.
 
As DCitrus9 so wisely observed, an aviation expert who was truly interested in the promotion and defense of aviation...
Since when does being an expert mean that someone also has to be an advocate?

The media man was presenting a news story for a commercial televison news program...duh... when was it 'news' that the media screws up everything up they touch? Ratings and selling commercials is what these places are all about and since when does anything the paid media present on commercial television become a FSI or FAA training seminar?

I saw the video...in my own opinion it looked as if they couldn't zoom in close enough to make the airliner look lower. Personally I think this story is a non-issue.

You would think that Sheriff Ken Jenne was a firearms "expert" and therefore should be a firearms "advocate"...according to the "aviation expert/aviation advocate" theory that has been presented in this thread...but yet in front of a national television audience, a sworn public official perpretrated lies and violated the public trust of his office when he brought CNN to the shooting range and used a machine gun to illustrate what gang members were going to have access to if the 94 Clinton Assault Weapons Ban was allowed to sunset in 1994.

In correlation, you have an EXPERT presenting a story accross the NEWS media. Here there is no advocacy...there is no accuracy...and there is no truth in this story. In fact, the abuse of this public official's power and the wrecklessness of CNN are almost bordering on criminal...but yet what do we do? We turn on the boob tube and watch.

CNN, which bills itself as "the most trusted name in news," was caught
lying during its "reporting" on so-called "assault weapons." On May 15,
CNN aired two pieces which deliberately misled its viewers into believing
that the semi-automatic firearms banned under the 1994 Clinton gun ban are
more powerful than other guns that weren`t banned.

CNN`s John Zarella arranged a live-fire demonstration with Sheriff Ken
Jenne of the Broward County (Fla.) Sheriff`s Department. The exercise
began with a deputy firing a Chinese AK-47 Zarella claimed was targeted by
the Clinton gun ban. Down range, viewers saw the rounds punching holes in
cinder blocks and penetrating body armor. Next, the sheriff fired what was
referenced as a different civilian AK-47 model that was not covered by the
`94 ban. Incredibly, viewers saw no bullet holes, dust, or smoke on the
cinder blocks during this demon-stration, as no rounds hit the cinder
blocks! In fact, CNN later acknowledged, the deputy was actually firing
into the ground. Obviously, the biased point the report was promoting was
that the firearms banned by the Clinton gun ban were somehow more powerful
than those that were not banned-a notion, of course, that is without any
factual merit.

In a later segment that same day, a deputy was aided by CNN in
promulgating the most blatant distortion of the truth. This time the gun
used was a fully-automatic firearm, and it obliterated the cinder blocks.
Of course, not one of the guns banned in `94 is fully-automatic. All of
the firearms covered by Clinton`s ban are semi-automatics. Fully-automatic
firearms have been strictly regulated since 1934.

This demonstration attempted to bolster the justification for Sheriff
Jenne and the Sheriff`s Department supporting the gun ban. This should
come as no surprise, though, since Jenne, who was a former Democratic
state lawmaker in Florida, supported a state bill banning semi-automatic
firearms which was defeated.
 
Last edited:
IN the news video it said 700 feet. Is this agl or msl?

If it were agl then no problem thats still above ciricling mins from the chart I have for MDW as it would be about 1300 to 1400 msl (as seen in the cockpit alt, 31C circling mins (mda) being 1120 (500-1).

Now if 700 was msl or what they had on the alt then they would have been about 100 ft agl due to the terrain being just over 600 ft in that area.

In the end I think it just news people making a big deal of something they know little about. Just my opinion but I think they decended to circling mins or there about and had to go alittle wide due to preceeding traffic. Nothing more to it other than public being misinformed.
 
It has to be 700 AGL because you would be hitting buildings in downtown Chicago if you were 100 AGL (everything is over 100ft high there).
 
If it were agl then no problem thats still above ciricling mins from the chart I have for MDW as it would be about 1300 to 1400 msl (as seen in the cockpit alt, 31C circling mins (mda) being 1120 (500-1).

It's mentioned above that they were doing a visual.. If they were circling, albeit at the correct altitude, they were a little far from the airport for a Cat D circle.. I believe 6 miles was mentioned in the report.

I'm surprised people don't freak out and call the police when Boston is sending the props down 15R with the vis transition to 4L. Doesn't get much closer to the buildings than that!
 
I'm surprised people don't freak out and call the police when Boston is sending the props down 15R with the vis transition to 4L. Doesn't get much closer to the buildings than that!

so much fun, haven't done it in awhile though. I also like racing the helos up the river coming out of DCA.
 
Technically, if you are flying a traffic pattern in a Jet, you should be doing so at 1500' AGL until in a normal position to land.

I've flown into MDW many times, I'm sure they just had to widen out for some traffic and didn't expect to get that far out. Don't know that I would have let myself get that far out while being that low, but I wasn't there.
 

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