Love Field operating in the Red. Who's fault is that? Not SWA!

[J3CubCapt]

Nov 22, 2005 8:46 am US/Central (CBS 11 News)

Many Want Closer Look at Love Field Finances

"I think it's very troubling.” Dallas City Councilwoman Angela Hunt says the council needs to investigate the finances at the Dallas-operated Love Field and Executive Airports.

As CBS 11 first reported Friday, airport administrators racked up $5.5 million in operating deficits from 2000 to 2005.

Last year, Moody's and Standard and Poor's lowered Love Field's bond rating.

"When our auditors are telling us we have financial problems and we're not operating as efficiently as we could at one of our enterprises, we have to look at it,” Hunt said. “But we have to do more than look at it — we have to take action on it."

The troubled finances were first brought up at this month's Senate hearings on lifting the Wright amendment.

The Love Field Citizens Action Committee opposes the repeal and questions the way the City of Dallas bankrolls Love Field.

"How long has this been going on and why haven't we learned about it sooner?” asked Rudy Longoria with the community group.

The city says it’s used prior surpluses to cover recent losses.

"Am I happy with the reports? No. Does the staff take steps to review and improve? I think we have,” replied Kenneth Gwyn, Dallas Aviation director.

Changes at the airport don’t seem to be enough to raise the bond rating.
One area cited was landing fees, which are 35 cents per 1,000 pounds at Love Field. At D/FW International Airport, the fees are $8.30.

"If they can make a justification for that fine, but if the city is in effect subsidizing Southwest Airlines, that's not fine,” said Pat White, who also is with the citizens’ group.

The city denies denies it is subsidizing Southwest Airlines.

Southwest officials report the airlines
the rent it pays for gates and terminal space at love field rose 77 percent from 2001 to 2003.

City auditors will do a follow up report next year.

 

[lowecur]

Nov 22, 2005 8:46 am US/Central (CBS 11 News)

Many Want Closer Look at Love Field Finances

"I think it's very troubling.” Dallas City Councilwoman Angela Hunt says the council needs to investigate the finances at the Dallas-operated Love Field and Executive Airports.

As CBS 11 first reported Friday, airport administrators racked up $5.5 million in operating deficits from 2000 to 2005.

35 Cents ?????????​

Hey so what, look at all the taxes that SWA is paying, right?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ​

God Bless you Herbie. Now if they are raised in line where the airport can reduce it's deficit and make a small profit, then I bet Herb/Gary head off to San Antonio for their new headquarters.

:beer: imp:

 

[Skyboss]

Now wouldn't this be ironic...

1. DAL loses their operating certificate for revenue diversion....Forcing WN to move to DFW.

Or:

2. DAL being unable to charge PFC's or get a good enough bond rating to expand as desired to accomodate WN's growth.

 

[sf260pilot]

Whazzzup J-3

The city denies denies it is subsidizing Southwest Airlines.

Why are you pointing this out in this forum? Do you really like working for SWA? Does this really help improve the working enviorment in Dallas?

 

[J3CubCapt]

Why are you pointing this out in this forum? Do you really like working for SWA? Does this really help improve the working enviorment in Dallas?

sf260Pilot

Yes I do work for and love SWA. I'm pointing this out because to be informed is the best way to argue a case. You need to be aware of these things so you do not get blindsided by the Spin.

Over 5 years Love Field lost 5 million dollars. Well I bet other city operations lost 1.1 million dollars a year too.

Don't forget that SWA is the second largest employer in Dallas and the Taxes generated for the city are huge.

This report also shows that DFW costs are 10 fold what they are at Love. (CBS 11 amended the DFW cost on thier 10pm news report to $4.58 per 1000 pounds)

We must be informed and prepared for all points of attack!

J3

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Now wouldn't this be ironic...

1. DAL loses their operating certificate for revenue diversion....Forcing WN to move to DFW.

Or:

2. DAL being unable to charge PFC's or get a good enough bond rating to expand as desired to accomodate WN's growth.

Uhhhh...lots of high powered (read= $$$) corporate jet operators (politically connected) who use DAL for their aircraft and live in nearby University/Highland Park. Think they would let option #1 happen?

And, as the Supreme Court has ruled in the past..."As long as DAL remains open as an airport, Soouthwest Airlines may _____ __ _______." (you fill in the blanks)

Tejas

 

[radarlove]

It does look like a sweetheart deal to SWA, though. I bet landing fees go up.

 

[El-Rushbo]

Why are you pointing this out in this forum? Do you really like working for SWA? Does this really help improve the working enviorment in Dallas?

I'm sorry if I misunderstand your post, but are you implying that he should be trying to cover this up, rather than post it here for discussion???


The question of Dallas subsidizing Love Field with tax dollars is a very valid question, and one that many other people are asking, according to the article. Whether this has anything to do with SWA is another question that I see no evidence of, according to the article. This may, however, affect SWA's current attempt to lift the WA. Not sure how this will play in DC but it will be interesting to hear the explanations and comments from both sides.

 

[sf260pilot]

This is really not a Dallas v. SWA issue. This is more proof that the city of Dallas is grossly mismanaged.

 

[bvt1151]

Airports are nonprofit organizations. Any extra profit they make is redistributed to the signatory airlines, and conversly, any shortfall is picked up by the signatory airlines. I believe SWA is the only signatory airline in DAL.

Of course IND is the exception here.

 

[bvt1151]

sf260Pilot

You need to be aware of these things so you do not get blindsided by the Spin.
J3

Becoming "informed" by the local media hardly qualifies.

 

[sf260pilot]

Airports are nonprofit organizations. Any extra profit they make is redistributed to the signatory airlines, and conversly, any shortfall is picked up by the signatory airlines. I believe SWA is the only signatory airline in DAL.

Of course IND is the exception here.

I thought that a non-profit would reinvest any monies back into the airport if there was an overage. Right now they are putting lighted center line lights on taxi way Charlie.

 

[Skyboss]

Over 5 years Love Field lost 5 million dollars. Well I bet other city operations lost 1.1 million dollars a year too.

Actually, only New Orleans. Airports don't generally lose money unless someone isn't minding the store properly. Especially commercial airports.

Don't forget that SWA is the second largest employer in Dallas and the Taxes generated for the city are huge.

So pay up.

We must be informed and prepared for all points of attack!

J3

Generally a good idea....

 

[Skyboss]

This is really not a Dallas v. SWA issue. This is more proof that the city of Dallas is grossly mismanaged.

Airports have a separate operating budget, and they should have one (DTW got in a pinch a few years back for revenue diversion) that balances revenues and expenses. They are supposed to be self supporting, and there really is no excuse for any income loss at all at DAL.

I smell revenue diversion.

 

[Skyboss]

Uhhhh...lots of high powered (read= $$$) corporate jet operators (politically connected) who use DAL for their aircraft and live in nearby University/Highland Park. Think they would let option #1 happen?

The operating certificate is for Commercial Operations, not GA. GA would go on unaffected. Generally speaking though, people get fired and go to jail first.

And, as the Supreme Court has ruled in the past..."As long as DAL remains open as an airport, Soouthwest Airlines may _____ __ _______." (you fill in the blanks)

Tejas

The Court ruling was regarding Intrastate travel which the Fed had no control over until Deregulation when they took control of Intrastate and Interstate regulatory issues. The Wright Amendment filled the gap making the Intrastate ruling moot.

 

[Flopgut]

Nov 22, 2005 8:46 am US/Central (CBS 11 News)

Many Want Closer Look at Love Field Finances

Changes at the airport don’t seem to be enough to raise the bond rating.
One area cited was landing fees, which are 35 cents per 1,000 pounds at Love Field. At D/FW International Airport, the fees are $8.30.

quote]

With tenants like SWA, who needs enemies?

This is not really a problem, SWA has plenty of money to make this right. I think they should be able to recoup all the monies rightfully owed the airport for all these years. SWA might have to call off some growth and sell some planes or something. If it were AA ripping off the public like this they would want to shut them down. SWA should be treated no better.

 

[ivauir]

They are. Fares to DFW from outside the WA states are OUTRAGEOUS.

 

[Flopgut]

They are. Fares to DFW from outside the WA states are OUTRAGEOUS.

You know, I think it would be hard to fly with you. You're so full of sh!t the flight deck probably smells worse than the lavatory! The airplane your flying probably has a brown contrail!

We don't even have to argue about this one, this is flat out embarrassing! How did you people think this was going to play out? I got news for you, look at the fares, there is no way you can make that claim you just did. I think the way to fix this properly is let you sling-blade hillbillies sponsor the $8+ dollar per thousand pound fees and let AA have the $.35 fees for the next 30 years! That ought to make it about right. What do you think your fares will look like then? How about your paycheck?

You SWA folks have some hell to pay on this one.

 

[SWAdude]

You SWA folks have some hell to pay on this one.

Thats funny.

Surely we will have to sell airplanes and call for massive paycuts because this will cost us billions of dollars. Not millions, yes billions. Flopgut called it. We are doomed because an airport that we fly into has questions about its financial management. Its been going on for over 30 years and no one has been the wiser. Oh, sh!t! This is huge!!!

I'm sure I'm going to sleep well tonight.

 

[Flopgut]

Thats funny.

Surely we will have to sell airplanes and call for massive paycuts because this will cost us billions of dollars. Not millions, yes billions. Flopgut called it. We are doomed because an airport that we fly into has questions about its financial management. Its been going on for over 30 years and no one has been the wiser. Oh, sh!t! This is huge!!!

I'm sure I'm going to sleep well tonight.

Parallels of very similiar circumstances can be drawn between this sort of revelation and the factors that were the demise of Braniff. Of course I don't want you to go out of business, I just want you to have to pay your fair share. And in this case, it probably is in the billions. With interest and punitive damages, you bet. It should be huge. Why does AA have to pay 20 times more for use of a Dallas airport than SWA?

 

[J3CubCapt]

So pay up.

Skboss, who says that we are not paying our share? SWA has paid what the city charged.

When I mentioned City Operations, I meant other Dallas city offices, not other airports.

J3

 

[ivauir]

You know, I think it would be hard to fly with you. You're so full of sh!t the flight deck probably smells worse than the lavatory! The airplane your flying probably has a brown contrail!

Sweet - ole flop gut has turned on the insult machine again! Who needs intellect? Who need facts? Not flopgut - he has insults. BTW I'm sure you are a real peach in person, and not having to fly with you is one of my favorite things about working at SWA.

We don't even have to argue about this one, this is flat out embarrassing! sure lets argue it How did you people think this was going to play out? I got news for you, look at the fares, there is no way you can make that claim you just did. Actaully there is a way - in fact it is quite easy - see below I think the way to fix this properly is let you sling-blade hillbillies sponsor the $8+ dollar per thousand pound fees and let AA have the $.35 fees for the next 30 years! That ought to make it about right. What do you think your fares will look like then? How about your paycheck?

You SWA folks have some hell to pay on this one.

Two cites picked at random: AA versus SWA using current fares - fully refundable one way tickets from the websites leaving tomorrow. The second SWA fare in the equation is the ABQ-DAL fare.

LA
AA 419
SWA 196+159 = 355

PHX
AA 503.50
SWA 109+159 = 268

I am sure you will answer this post with another insult. That is all I have ever seen you do. Do you treat people like this in real life? Or does being annonymous give you the courage you lack in real life? In no case will you admit that you are in error and that the WA is stifling competion. The fact is the WA is costing consumers and AA is benefiting.

 

[scoreboard]

Uh, because

Why does AA have to pay 20 times more for use of a Dallas airport than SWA?

AA management types are dumbshiittes??

Dude, if there is a problem at LUV, it's LUV field not funding/charging properly, not SWA NOT paying our bills.

 

[TAZ MAN]

Parallels of very similiar circumstances can be drawn between this sort of revelation and the factors that were the demise of Braniff. Of course I don't want you to go out of business, I just want you to have to pay your fair share. And in this case, it probably is in the billions. With interest and punitive damages, you bet. It should be huge. Why does AA have to pay 20 times more for use of a Dallas airport than SWA?

Because its more expensive to operate?

 

[scoreboard]

You sir, are

This is not really a problem, SWA has plenty of money to make this right.

Sure, and while we are at it, lets use our profits to bring down the deficit and cure cancer.... I think they should be able to recoup all the monies rightfully owed the airport for all these years. And what did SWA do wrong? Was there a trial I missed?
SWA might have to call off some growth and sell some planes or something. Like, nothing? If it were AA ripping off the public like this they would want to shut them down. PLease oh please see post above by ivauir

Off the deep end, ciao.

 

[Flopgut]

Guys, the truth hurts. You have been ripping people off. Ivauir's fare quotes evidently should be adjusted for wrongfully imposed airport fees. That is the whole point buddy! Lets scale the economies of these airports, who is flying cheaper then?

At CAL they were finding financial schemes planted by lorenzo as late as 1999. In one scheme, all the CSDs on the B727s had been sold to a company and were being leased back at a ridiculous fee. I bet that is the same thing here. This is probably something heldover from the back room deals that Herb made with Lady Bird to cut down Braniff! I mean come on, are you kidding me? $.35 vs. $8+ dollars! That's ridiculous. I hope they start pulling your nuts off over this. You deserve it.

Lets just switch the fees, OK? We don't even have to make adjustments for inflation or anything. Lets just hang the 8 dollar fee on your b!tch a$$ for about three decades and call it even.

 

[ivauir]

Guys, the truth hurts. You have been ripping people off. Ivauir's fare quotes evidently should be adjusted for wrongfully imposed airport fees. That is the whole point buddy! Lets scale the economies of these airports, who is flying cheaper then?

At CAL they were finding financial schemes planted by lorenzo as late as 1999. In one scheme, all the CSDs on the B727s had been sold to a company and were being leased back at a ridiculous fee. I bet that is the same thing here. This is probably something heldover from the back room deals that Herb made with Lady Bird to cut down Braniff! I mean come on, are you kidding me? $.35 vs. $8+ dollars! That's ridiculous. I hope they start pulling your nuts off over this. You deserve it.

Lets just switch the fees, OK? We don't even have to make adjustments for inflation or anything. Lets just hang the 8 dollar fee on your b!tch a$$ for about three decades and call it even.

How can you claim not to hate SWA and yet continue to post this drivel? Comparing Herb to lorenzo - you have lost your mind.

 

[Flopgut]

How can you claim not to hate SWA and yet continue to post this drivel? Comparing Herb to lorenzo - you have lost your mind.

I absolutely do not hate SWA. I was particuliarly fond of Braniff. I think that turnabout is fairplay. You screwed Braniff, yours is coming. Or at least should be coming. You will most likely (and wrongfully) persevere.

 

[ivauir]

I absolutely do not hate SWA.

Could have fooled me.

You have been ripping people off

on your b!tch a$$

You know, I think it would be hard to fly with you. You're so full of sh!t the flight deck probably smells worse than the lavatory! The airplane your flying probably has a brown contrail!

you sling-blade hillbillies

You SWA folks have some hell to pay on this one.

With tenants like SWA, who needs enemies?

I hope they start pulling your nuts off over this. You deserve it.

Now this is just from one thread. I know the third one wasn't about SWA, just me, but it was such an unnessecary, unprovoked, and crude personal attack that I just had to throw it in. It is interesting that even when we agree on something (SR65) you find it necessary to toss a few insults my way. Face it: you are a SWA hater.
You are a spiteful person with nothing to contribute to this discussion. You lurk on every SWA thread looking for a hint of arrogance, a peice of bad news ANYTHING so you can gloat over the demise of SWA. Everytime I respond to your missinformation and lies, you slander and insult me.

 

[Flopgut]

Could have fooled me.













Now this is just from one thread. I know the third one wasn't about SWA, just me, but it was such an unnessecary, unprovoked, and crude personal attack that I just had to throw it in. It is interesting that even when we agree on something (SR65) you find it necessary to toss a few insults my way. Face it: you are a SWA hater.
You are a spiteful person with nothing to contribute to this discussion. You lurk on every SWA thread looking for a hint of arrogance, a peice of bad news ANYTHING so you can gloat over the demise of SWA. Everytime I respond to your missinformation and lies, you slander and insult me.

Slander and insult huh? You are getting off easy. How about the career Braniff pilots and their families that your airline roasted? How about all the people who have suffered under this bullsh!t arrangement of one airport with pennies in fees (yours), and AA which gets to sponsor fees that exceed anyone's impression of reasonable? this is not about "you and me", don't flatter yourself. This is about Southwest Airlines and the crap they have been feeding people for 30+ years. This business should have never lost Braniff to your pseudo airline crap.

You meet me in person and you'll know it. I don't sugarcoat my feelings on this issue. Most often when I talk about this with my contemporaies who are at SWA they just stare at the floor and hope I shut up. They know they have a bullsh!t position on the issue.