Looks like I was right about the failed SWA TA

shearedshaft

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Did you hear that sound that accompanied Gary Kelly's letter this evening?

Yep, that was the sound of our negotiated raises disappearing.

Just like I predicted. You no voters sure got yourself a deal, yup!

The 20th paycheck is almost here, when it hits, I hope you realize that if you're a captain, you're already $2,000 poorer. It will get worse by $1,000 per month. If you're a senior FO, well, about the same, you're down two grand.

Nice work guys. No scope or codeshare protection, no rigged open time, no raises, just a lot of surprised looking guys wondering where the money went.

That's ok. I'm sure in 2011 we'll be ready for another vote.
 

redflyer65

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You wanted to vote in a concessionary contract for few extra dollars a month?
 

Nevets

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Nice work guys. No scope or codeshare protection...That's ok. I'm sure in 2011 we'll be ready for another vote.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the scope language in the TA pretty weak anyways?
 

RDG

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My no vote had nothing to do with money. And if the deal isn't equal or better the next time around, guess what? I vote no again.
 

shearedshaft

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Scope language was great--if it flies in the US, SWAPA pilots fly it. Codeshare language was great--for far international codeshare. It was very weak for near international codeshare.

But it prohibited ALL domestic codeshare, I've never seen that in any other pilot contract.

And to the poster that claimed the TA was "concessionary", uh, no. Gary's latest offer, now that is concessionary, since it changes quality of life issues while taking raises off the table.

Nice work guys. Do any of you folks have any ideas for what's next? Just stay in a 1994 contract with 2006 pay rates forever? It seems like you just handed Gary Kelly the keys to be able to do just that.
 

Nevets

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It was very weak for near international codeshare.

Yeah, that is what I meant. It seems to me that as long as they meet the growth requirements, there is no limit as to how much flying they can give to Westjet, Volaris, or any other airline in CA or MX in the future
 

The Prussian

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In engineering terms (fluid dynamics), it is referred to as head loss. To those of us in Rio Linda, we just hosed ourselves.
 

DH2WN

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Time to get that strike preparedness team together. Gary's direct negotiations with the pilot group is absurd and screams of Jim Parker flaws.

Herb's airline is gone. Accept it and move on. Yes, Gary "it's on."
 

vixin

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I am ready for a strike. First we need to get rid of Carl and his lacky Tom D. Shearshaft. If that $1000 per month was so important and thats what Mr. GK wants to take away. Then I guess we can count on your no vote.

Fly safe! I know I will be.
 
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The Prussian

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Time to get that strike preparedness team together. Gary's direct negotiations with the pilot group is absurd and screams of Jim Parker flaws.

Herb's airline is gone. Accept it and move on. Yes, Gary "it's on."


Now if that isn't one of the smarter ideas I've heard in a long time!!!:puke: Do you really work here?? :rolleyes:
 

GuppyWN

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I will vote no again. And again. And again if I have to. It's not about the money it's about MY future. I will not accept a contract that farms out my future and that of my WN bretheren.

Gup
 

Bake

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Hey Prussian, Yes, that is exactly what us right seaters are talking about. We out voted you once we can do it again. Go back to filling Gary's trough.
 

Mach92

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Did you hear that sound that accompanied Gary Kelly's letter this evening?

Yep, that was the sound of our negotiated raises disappearing.

Just like I predicted. You no voters sure got yourself a deal, yup!

The 20th paycheck is almost here, when it hits, I hope you realize that if you're a captain, you're already $2,000 poorer. It will get worse by $1,000 per month. If you're a senior FO, well, about the same, you're down two grand.

Nice work guys. No scope or codeshare protection, no rigged open time, no raises, just a lot of surprised looking guys wondering where the money went.

That's ok. I'm sure in 2011 we'll be ready for another vote.

Management suck hole stfu!
OR
If you are really a pilot what a sad sob you are.
 

texman

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I will vote no again. And again. And again if I have to. It's not about the money it's about MY future. I will not accept a contract that farms out my future and that of my WN bretheren.

Gup



I agree.
 

Monster Buck

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I will vote no again. And again. And again if I have to. It's not about the money it's about MY future. I will not accept a contract that farms out my future and that of my WN bretheren.

Gup


Man I'll tell ya. If more people understood this our power to negotiate actually grows stronger contract over contract, since the wages the pilots fight for will actually go to the pilots IN that company. Its awesome to have great wages, who doesn't want them, but if you don't fly that plane anymore your wage is ZERO! Go ask a Midwest pilot how his or her wage is.
 

shearedshaft

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So you think you're trading wages for some mythical "no outsourcing of my job" clause in the contract? Where, exactly, is that clause you're looking for?

No domestic codeshare? It was in the TA. Near international can't get greater than six percent? In the TA.

Voting no? Gets rid of all codeshare protections. You voted FOR codeshare by voting no, instead of against codeshare.

The good news is that you gave up pay to get unlimited codeshare. Nice work!
 

firstthird

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Scope language was great--if it flies in the US, SWAPA pilots fly it. Codeshare language was great--for far international codeshare. It was very weak for near international codeshare.

But it prohibited ALL domestic codeshare, I've never seen that in any other pilot contract.
You overstate the section one of the TA by half.

The TA gave away distribution. The TA allowed RJs if we acquire another airline. The TA allowed domestic codeshare with the agreement of the association (read voice vote by BOD, not vote of membership).
 

firstthird

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No domestic codeshare? It was in the TA. Near international can't get greater than six percent? In the TA.

Voting no? Gets rid of all codeshare protections. You voted FOR codeshare by voting no, instead of against codeshare.

The good news is that you gave up pay to get unlimited codeshare. Nice work!
domestic - addressed above. although it was one of the better parts of the TA.

international - 6% is basically all of Westjet and Volaris. All of their possible flying didn't add up to 6% of what we do. thus it was a meaningless 'limit.'

We temporarily delayed raises (and retro) to protect our QOL. someday you'll understand (or actually maybe you won't, it seems you've got a direct line to the chief pilot talking points memos though) and you'll thank us for your QOL, pay and codeshare protections.
 
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