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Looking for some cheap time building

  • Thread starter Thread starter wwiiguy
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Making lemonade out of lemons

wwiiguy said:
Point taken. I certainly had to weigh that heavily before I left FL and moved back. I realized by leaving an instructing job in good-weather FL and coming back to foul-weather cincy, the chances were good I'd be sitting on the ground twiddling my thumbs for a while and losing currency along with some proficiency. However, it was a decision I was willing to live with for the time being. Certainly, it's slowed my flying down temporarily, but in the end, I'm the one who's got to live with my choices, good or bad, and I don't regret the decision . . . .
On the other hand, where you are now offers the opportunity for you (and your students) to learn and experience weather. I instructed in Florida for a little over a year; flying in the sunshine is nice but does not provide true wx training, e.g., Air Florida.
 
Hours

greygoose said:
I will bring up I know of a instructor that had four interviews, if not more that he has been denied at getting a job. He still is instructing at 2400.
My story is similar to the instructor you know. I was still instructing with the numbers you see at the left. I could not interest a commuter in my services. I gave up when I realized I was getting nowhere fast.

I have my theories about my case, but I can tell you that hours alone are not the silver bullet for being hired.
 
Care to share any of those theories? Just curious. If your still instructing with those hours and that kind of experience, you must be in it for the long haul and that is to be commended!!
 
CFIcare said:
There's nothing magic about 1200...but they actually hire at 2000 or something. It's called "insurance minimums" which are not the same as FAA miminums.

Once I hit 1200 I applied at a few 135 freight companies and they were practically beating down my door they needed pilots so bad. My buddy was flying vans and barons with Airnet with 1200 TT. I don't think insurance really plays a part in the 135 environment (maybe their aircraft are so crappy they aren't insured :))?

With 1200 and the associated 135 PIC mins you can pretty much land a bottom-barrel freight job these days. It wouldn't be for the best company and most nicest equipment, but I'd be a J-O-B.

~wheelsup
 
The wonderful evolution of threads

Hey, I want to apologize to the people that I insulted on this thread. I have gone back and edited some of my posts where I feel that what I said was out of place.

I would like to add that it gets more than a little exasperating when someone asks an honest question on here, only to have their motives twisted and critiqued. I don't really care about the insults so much as I do it clutters up the entire thread and sidetracks the purpose for which someone began it. Someone is trying to get some info--either offer something constructive or stay out of the thread or start a new one. I think from now on, whenever I start a thread, I'm going to create a parallel one for flamers only. That way I can get the info needed and at the same time appease those who absolutely must get a few cracks in about what an idiot or arrogant SOB I am....and you're probably right about me, at least part of the time--just don't clutter up my thread :)

Anyway, no excuses for my part in the oh-so-quick deterioration of this thread. You have my apology.

Additionally, I really appreciate the ideas some of you have mentioned. It's been helpful to me--thanks!
 
cfi on the fly said:
Care to share any of those theories? Just curious. If your still instructing with those hours and that kind of experience, you must be in it for the long haul and that is to be commended!!
I am not flying presently. Most people who've been here a while know my story, so I'll provide it only briefly.

I was a career changer. I had been flying for about five years when I decided, in 1987 and at age 36, that I wanted to fly professionally. I had two friends who were about my age whom the commuters hired. I thought that if they could do it I could do it and, besides, there was talk about a pilot shortage. I only needed my multi ratings, which I obtained. I got my multi and, with about 900 hours and, eventually, 50 of multi, started applying. I got my MEI later.

I applied everywhere, especially to the ones that required low multi time (which was a crock). I talked to people at my airport that flew CV-240s. I talked to the pilot of the governor's airplane. Eventually, ERAU hired me to instruct. At ERAU, I built my total and multi time and, during that time, earned my ATP and type rating. I continued to apply. My goal was the commuters only; I was realistic about not being majors meat.

I finally had interviews. My first interview, in 1990 at age 39, was with WestAir/United Express. That previous weekend, Saddam invaded Kuwait. During that period, the economy, under George Bush, tanked.

The hiring boom was over. But, as always, there was still hiring. I know, because my Riddle colleagues, who had similar quals as me but were fifteen years or younger than me (I was 40) were being interviewed and hired at the same regionals to which I had applied but heard nothing. In the meantime, Eastern, Pan Am, etc., were failing and putting far better qualified pilots than me on the streets. But, because I continued to instruct, I remained employed as a pilot while many of them could not find pilot work - eventually building 3549 hours of instructing time. Yes, I wanted to move up, but I was happy instructing and working with students - and happy to have a pilot job.

So, that is why I lack empathy for anyone who gripes about being burned out after giving only 700 hours of flight instruction.
 
Last edited:
wwiiguy said:
Hey, I want to apologize to the people that I insulted on this thread. I have gone back and edited some of my posts where I feel that what I said was out of place.

I would like to add that it gets more than a little exasperating when someone asks an honest question on here, only to have their motives twisted and critiqued. I don't really care about the insults so much as I do it clutters up the entire thread and sidetracks the purpose for which someone began it. Someone is trying to get some info--either offer something constructive or stay out of the thread or start a new one. I think from now on, whenever I start a thread, I'm going to create a parallel one for flamers only. That way I can get the info needed and at the same time appease those who absolutely must get a few cracks in about what an idiot or arrogant SOB I am....and you're probably right about me, at least part of the time--just don't clutter up my thread :)

Anyway, no excuses for my part in the oh-so-quick deterioration of this thread. You have my apology.

Additionally, I really appreciate the ideas some of you have mentioned. It's been helpful to me--thanks!

No problem man dont worry about it!:)
 
bobbysamd said:
I finally had interviews. My first interview, in 1990 at age 39, was with WestAir/United Express.

Bummer that didn't work out. You would have flown with a good group of people.
Heh, I was buddies with the CP back then...only had 300 hours tho. :(
 
Have you though about the National Guard? You won't get burned out doing that. I was AD for 14 years, not for the hours, but for the love of it.

If you go guard, you'll get some great heavy time along with some really great experiences.

It's not for everyone...good luck though.
 
Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind, although I've been told by some that my age (33) and my vision (blind as a bat without contacts or glasses) would disqualify me from being a pilot with them. Although I've got to admit, if I had the chance just to learn to be a navigator or some other crewmember on one of those birds I'll bet that would be quite an experience.
 
WWii..you must have spent a fortune at ari ben aviator...as far as instructing goes..not all of us will quit..I plan on instructing as long as the man upstairs and the FAA let me.....there is nothing like the first solo flight of a student...and the smile that never leaves thier faces...so obviously you experiences were not all good or you have a confidence problem...experiences are gained ...most are forgotten...but if your confidence in yourself or your abilities as a pilot are in doubt....(BY OTHERS) you will not be long for the world of professional aviators...
Scenic airlines is hiring in vegas with 600tt and 50 multi
 
wwiiguy said:
Hey, I want to apologize to the people that I insulted on this thread. I have gone back and edited some of my posts where I feel that what I said was out of place.

I would like to add that it gets more than a little exasperating when someone asks an honest question on here, only to have their motives twisted and critiqued. I don't really care about the insults so much as I do it clutters up the entire thread and sidetracks the purpose for which someone began it. Someone is trying to get some info--either offer something constructive or stay out of the thread or start a new one. I think from now on, whenever I start a thread, I'm going to create a parallel one for flamers only. That way I can get the info needed and at the same time appease those who absolutely must get a few cracks in about what an idiot or arrogant SOB I am....and you're probably right about me, at least part of the time--just don't clutter up my thread :)

Anyway, no excuses for my part in the oh-so-quick deterioration of this thread. You have my apology.

Additionally, I really appreciate the ideas some of you have mentioned. It's been helpful to me--thanks!


It's not what you're asking, it's how you went representing yourself. Many good intentions get taken the wrong way when the wrong words are used. "Think before you speak" holds boldly true on this board and in life in general. Choose your words carefully - this will only help you in your interviews and in getting good advice.
 
If you want to tow banners without getting ripped off ("buying an endorsement"), then call Paul Calabro at Island Ariel, Brookhaven NY (631)281-1244. He's the greatest boss many of us ever had, an excellent mechanic and runs a fun operation!
April 1, 2005
ISLAND AERIAL ADS (Part Time Banner Tow Pilot - New York)
Tel: (631) 281-1244
Web Site: http://www.USSKYADS.com
 
PC12Cowboy said:
WWii..you must have spent a fortune at ari ben aviator...as far as instructing goes..not all of us will quit..I plan on instructing as long as the man upstairs and the FAA let me.....there is nothing like the first solo flight of a student...and the smile that never leaves thier faces...so obviously you experiences were not all good or you have a confidence problem...experiences are gained ...most are forgotten...but if your confidence in yourself or your abilities as a pilot are in doubt....(BY OTHERS) you will not be long for the world of professional aviators...
Scenic airlines is hiring in vegas with 600tt and 50 multi


I'm curious what made you think I spent a lot of moolah at the Aviator? Actually, I didn't. That was one of the great selling points of the school, plus when I completed the training I had some 200 hrs in a duchess and around 75 in a 172. All told, from the time I started training (.9TT when I went down there) I'd guess I ended up spending in the neighborhood of $35,000. That's the school's part, plus my ckride fees, books, everything. Unfortunately, I've heard horror stories of what some other schools rake in from pilots. Like any place, Aviator has its plusses and minuses, but I'd recommend the school to anyone looking to start training. Not saying I'd recommend everyone go there, because everyone is different, but it would definitely be worth someone's time to call down there and talk to them. If nothing else it would help serve as a comparison against other schools. Anyway, that's my two cents on that.

As for flight instructing, I know it shouldn't, but it bugs me how people read so much into a person's comments on these boards sometimes. Maybe it's a product of people just blowing some steam. No, I can't say I have any major confidence problems in the realm of piloting. Like you, one of my greatest thrills as a cfi has been soloing guys or signing them off to do their first x-c's. I remember how excited, nervous and proud I was at that point in my flying and I loved helping someone get to that same point in their own flying.

When it comes to how I viewed instructing, however, it is a job or profession. Some people are better at it than others. Some like it more than others. My hats off to anyone who really enjoys being a cfi. I had my moments where I really enjoyed it, but overall, I knew I wasn't the greatest fit for it. At times I was a bit of a square peg in the round hole. I had my strong points and my weak points like anyone. Yes, I put my heart in it, yes I worked hard, yes, I learned a great deal from the experience, yes, I do believe I was a better person for the experience, and yes, I believe my students became better pilots because they flew with me (I'm not saying I was Mr. All-Star CFI by any means). But did I want to keep doing it? No. If I would've known that was the only game going to get flight time, I would've mentally prepared myself to instruct longer. But it's not. So, I've been looking and thankfully, my searching paid off. I've got an interesting flying job now with much better pay than one would normally expect to get at this stage in the game.

As for the confidence, I have found there are highs and lows. I wouldn't want to fly with someone who was always lacking in confidence, but neither would I want to be in the same plane with someone who was smug in his/her abilities. I remember in my training there were times when I felt on top of the world and there were other times when I would ask myself how badly I wanted this and was I willing to sacrifice everything I that I would have to in order to become a professional pilot. Thankfully, I always have arrived at the same answer to that question.

As for others doubting another pilot's ability, I think that is just common sense. That goes for just about any field of work. It's nothing unique to aviation. Again, the square peg/round hole principle. Thankfully, one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to be a professional pilot. Got to have some brains, but we don't have to be geniuses. Some smarts, some common sense, a willingness to learn, and perseverence seem to make for a pretty good pilot.
 

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