Looking for some cheap time building

[HMR]

What DZ? I want to move there so I can get in more jumps. I'm jump-deprived lately, and have been experiencing withdrawls.

I'll help you pack wwii's parachute.

 

[SERPICO]

WWIIGUY,
You had a fair question to start with, but as I read down throuh your repiles I will certainly agree that your are full of arrogance, yes you are stating the obvious.
But are you aware that you might well be a complete dickhead? Do some research....enlighten yourself. You might start by reading your posts and even asking your past students, who were also clients paying big bucks.
Your attacks were the first to become personal, why?
To finish I would love to make you feel better by having the last word.
Your a funny guy.

 

[CFIcare]

You want to know why I'm not instructing? To be perfectly honest, after about 700 hours of instructing, I got burned out. And though I know that I could pick up roots again and relocate somewhere to instruct for a few hundred more hours, I feel I'd be making a mistake to put myself through all that again (I just moved back to Cincy), and I don't think I'd be giving my students a very good deal. If my heart isn't in it, I tend to do a crappy job.

Burned out after 700 hours?? I thought I was toasted at 1900 dual given...

I need to hit the 1200TT and then I am fairly certain I could get a job with something like Flight Express that actually has a pilot base in Cincy. Of course even with that, I might have to work out of some other city until I could bid my way back to Cincy, but that is a much nicer looking carrot on a stick than living in some strange place to flight instruct again. Anyway, I know many pilots who want to criticize could easily say that I never should have become a pilot if I wasn't willing to bounce around like a basketball. I just figure it's a matter of priorities though. It might hurt my flying career to a degree by not being so flexible on where I choose to live, but on the other hand, flying isn't the only thing in life.

There's nothing magic about 1200...or any number really.No one will beat your door down because you have a certain number. Usually that's the minumum to even get them to talk to you, but they actually hire at 2000 or something. It's called "insurance minimums" which are not the same as FAA miminums.

You say "give me anything that flies" to build time...just as long as you aren't instructing in it. Beggars can't be choosers. Also, be careful because one day the guy who interviews you or hires you may have built his time in the trenches as a CFI and might not be very sympathetic to your quick burnout. What if you quickly burn out at the job you are interviewing for? Would it be wise to hire someone like that? Something to think about.

 

[bobbysamd]

Work ethic - or fun v. work

You want to know why I'm not instructing? To be perfectly honest, after about 700 hours of instructing, I got burned out . . . .

Violins, anyone? As someone who has 3549 hours of dual given in his logbook, I have little empathy for you.

I think what's really going on is you have confused burnout with not having fun. You had fun flying the airplane during training, but now you're not doing much actual flying, and, suddenly, it's not so much fun anymore. You want to have fun but working is not always fun, even in a profession you enjoy. In other words, the party's over and it's time to get serious, but all you want is fun. Guess what? Life is not always fun.

Everyone has highs and lows at work in every job, good days and bad days, and everyone has days when they don't want to go in, but they do it anyway and do their jobs. Work is stressful and no job is perfect. One just has to keep at it and keep the big picture in mind, whatever that big picture may be. This is called "work ethic."

I believe a problem with so many people these days is that no one wants to put forth the effort to accomplish a goal. Maybe this is a generational thing. These people want everything but are not willing to work for it; in fact, they expect everything to accrue to them. They have no work ethic, nor do they understand what it means to work. Could you be one of those? You better not be if you hope to be successful in this business, because you'll find that your peers are willing to put forth the effort to build their careers and won't have much respect for you if you are not. You have seen what I mean by the responses generated by your initial post.

Give it some thought.

 

[Art Vandalay]

Removed. I am in a better mood this morning.


Art V.

 

[wwiiguy]

thanks to all

wow, its amazing how emotional people are when someone says they'd rather build time doing something other than flight instruct. if someone wants to get their hours flight instructing, i say go for it. we all know it's the quickest way to build flight time, not to mention the things you learn. i wish i was more cut out to be an instructor....unfortunately, i know myself well enough that i am never going to be an all-star teacher. for those i see who are always flaming people here because they'd rather do something other than flight instruct, why don't you just stay flight instructors the rest of your lives?? I'll tell you why, because when you first had that thought to become a pilot, your sole aspiration wasn't to become a cfi and stop there. Most of us want to eventually do something beyond flight instructing. in fact, if we took the advice some people like to give around here, we'd be still be stuck in some completely different field besides aviation. I would've never left the insurance industry to become a pilot. Instead I wouldve stayed at a job that I had no business being in. if someone wants to pretend they have never quit a job because they didn't like what they were doing or had the awareness to see that they were a square peg in a round hole then go ahead. as for me, i have no problem saying that i worked for a year as a flight instructor had some good times and a few not so good moments. i wasn't the best instructor there and i wasnt the worst. and at some point in time, almost all of us have said "hey, i think i'm done flight instructing. I want to do something different now." otherwise we'd never move beyond being a cfi. that's not called whining. that's called doing something different in your flying career. I suppose no one who has a job doing 135, 121, skydiving flights, banner towing--ever quit a flight instructing job to take the new job. Bullcrap, everyone here who is a cfi either has or will decide to quit flight instructing at some point in their careers. doesnt mean we hated being a cfi or that we won't ever do it again. some will instruct longer than I have before moving on, others will move on sooner than I decided to. to those of you who like to bash the rest us for wanting to do something different, and God forbid, possibly even find a job that's better than flight instructing, stop being such a hypocrite about it. You did the same thing at some point in your career too.

To those who have offered some ideas and to the one or two of you who've given me some helpful criticism, thanks. To those who have jumped in the thread and had nothing positive to add, I just want to say you really hurt my feelings and I think I'm going to cry now......please don't flame me again

 

[comander]

I think my post is now deleted then

 

[Art Vandalay]

I woke up in a better mood and removed my previous post. As a poster said before, try skypark up north. I have heard good things about that place.



Art V.

 

[bobbysamd]

Non-instructing time-building

wow, its amazing how emotional people are when someone says they'd rather build time doing something other than flight instruct. if someone wants to get their hours flight instructing, i say go for it. we all know it's the quickest way to build flight time, not to mention the things you learn. i wish i was more cut out to be an instructor....unfortunately, i know myself well enough that i am never going to be an all-star teacher . . . .

Fair response. I've always said that if one can get a non-instructing job at 250 hours right out of training, more power to that person. But, as a practical matter, flight instructing is the easiest entry-level pilot job one can get, and it pays rewards beyond salary and flight time. And, even if you don't like your job, or feel burned out, as you have said, despite these things one has to be practical and continue with it until something better comes along. In other words, as in other businesses, one needs a job and it's better to keep the job one has and do the best possible until something better comes along. Leaving a job without something else lined up is ill-advised, burn-out or not.

 

[wwiiguy]

.... even if you don't like or feel burned out, as you have said, despite these things one has to be practical and continue with it until something better comes along. In other words, as in other businesses, one needs a job and it's better to keep the job one has and do the best possible until something better comes along. Leaving a job without something else lined up is ill-advised, burn-out or not.

Point taken. I certainly had to weigh that heavily before I left FL and moved back. I realized by leaving an instructing job in good-weather FL and coming back to foul-weather cincy, the chances were good I'd be sitting on the ground twiddling my thumbs for a while and losing currency along with some proficiency. However, it was a decision I was willing to live with for the time being. Certainly, it's slowed my flying down temporarily, but in the end, I'm the one who's got to live with my choices, good or bad, and I don't regret the decision. All that said, what you've said is certainly a good general rule to try to follow when it comes to making job decisions.

 

[bobbysamd]

Making lemonade out of lemons

Point taken. I certainly had to weigh that heavily before I left FL and moved back. I realized by leaving an instructing job in good-weather FL and coming back to foul-weather cincy, the chances were good I'd be sitting on the ground twiddling my thumbs for a while and losing currency along with some proficiency. However, it was a decision I was willing to live with for the time being. Certainly, it's slowed my flying down temporarily, but in the end, I'm the one who's got to live with my choices, good or bad, and I don't regret the decision . . . .

On the other hand, where you are now offers the opportunity for you (and your students) to learn and experience weather. I instructed in Florida for a little over a year; flying in the sunshine is nice but does not provide true wx training, e.g., Air Florida.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hours

I will bring up I know of a instructor that had four interviews, if not more that he has been denied at getting a job. He still is instructing at 2400.

My story is similar to the instructor you know. I was still instructing with the numbers you see at the left. I could not interest a commuter in my services. I gave up when I realized I was getting nowhere fast.

I have my theories about my case, but I can tell you that hours alone are not the silver bullet for being hired.

 

[cfi on the fly]

Care to share any of those theories? Just curious. If your still instructing with those hours and that kind of experience, you must be in it for the long haul and that is to be commended!!

 

[wheelsup]

There's nothing magic about 1200...but they actually hire at 2000 or something. It's called "insurance minimums" which are not the same as FAA miminums.

Once I hit 1200 I applied at a few 135 freight companies and they were practically beating down my door they needed pilots so bad. My buddy was flying vans and barons with Airnet with 1200 TT. I don't think insurance really plays a part in the 135 environment (maybe their aircraft are so crappy they aren't insured )?

With 1200 and the associated 135 PIC mins you can pretty much land a bottom-barrel freight job these days. It wouldn't be for the best company and most nicest equipment, but I'd be a J-O-B.

~wheelsup

 

[wwiiguy]

The wonderful evolution of threads

Hey, I want to apologize to the people that I insulted on this thread. I have gone back and edited some of my posts where I feel that what I said was out of place.

I would like to add that it gets more than a little exasperating when someone asks an honest question on here, only to have their motives twisted and critiqued. I don't really care about the insults so much as I do it clutters up the entire thread and sidetracks the purpose for which someone began it. Someone is trying to get some info--either offer something constructive or stay out of the thread or start a new one. I think from now on, whenever I start a thread, I'm going to create a parallel one for flamers only. That way I can get the info needed and at the same time appease those who absolutely must get a few cracks in about what an idiot or arrogant SOB I am....and you're probably right about me, at least part of the time--just don't clutter up my thread

Anyway, no excuses for my part in the oh-so-quick deterioration of this thread. You have my apology.

Additionally, I really appreciate the ideas some of you have mentioned. It's been helpful to me--thanks!

 

[bobbysamd]

Care to share any of those theories? Just curious. If your still instructing with those hours and that kind of experience, you must be in it for the long haul and that is to be commended!!

I am not flying presently. Most people who've been here a while know my story, so I'll provide it only briefly.

I was a career changer. I had been flying for about five years when I decided, in 1987 and at age 36, that I wanted to fly professionally. I had two friends who were about my age whom the commuters hired. I thought that if they could do it I could do it and, besides, there was talk about a pilot shortage. I only needed my multi ratings, which I obtained. I got my multi and, with about 900 hours and, eventually, 50 of multi, started applying. I got my MEI later.

I applied everywhere, especially to the ones that required low multi time (which was a crock). I talked to people at my airport that flew CV-240s. I talked to the pilot of the governor's airplane. Eventually, ERAU hired me to instruct. At ERAU, I built my total and multi time and, during that time, earned my ATP and type rating. I continued to apply. My goal was the commuters only; I was realistic about not being majors meat.

I finally had interviews. My first interview, in 1990 at age 39, was with WestAir/United Express. That previous weekend, Saddam invaded Kuwait. During that period, the economy, under George Bush, tanked.

The hiring boom was over. But, as always, there was still hiring. I know, because my Riddle colleagues, who had similar quals as me but were fifteen years or younger than me (I was 40) were being interviewed and hired at the same regionals to which I had applied but heard nothing. In the meantime, Eastern, Pan Am, etc., were failing and putting far better qualified pilots than me on the streets. But, because I continued to instruct, I remained employed as a pilot while many of them could not find pilot work - eventually building 3549 hours of instructing time. Yes, I wanted to move up, but I was happy instructing and working with students - and happy to have a pilot job.

So, that is why I lack empathy for anyone who gripes about being burned out after giving only 700 hours of flight instruction.

 

[comander]

Hey, I want to apologize to the people that I insulted on this thread. I have gone back and edited some of my posts where I feel that what I said was out of place.

I would like to add that it gets more than a little exasperating when someone asks an honest question on here, only to have their motives twisted and critiqued. I don't really care about the insults so much as I do it clutters up the entire thread and sidetracks the purpose for which someone began it. Someone is trying to get some info--either offer something constructive or stay out of the thread or start a new one. I think from now on, whenever I start a thread, I'm going to create a parallel one for flamers only. That way I can get the info needed and at the same time appease those who absolutely must get a few cracks in about what an idiot or arrogant SOB I am....and you're probably right about me, at least part of the time--just don't clutter up my thread

Anyway, no excuses for my part in the oh-so-quick deterioration of this thread. You have my apology.

Additionally, I really appreciate the ideas some of you have mentioned. It's been helpful to me--thanks!

No problem man dont worry about it!

 

[Ill Mitch]

I finally had interviews. My first interview, in 1990 at age 39, was with WestAir/United Express.

Bummer that didn't work out. You would have flown with a good group of people.
Heh, I was buddies with the CP back then...only had 300 hours tho.

 

[avbug]

Woody Wood, out of Fresno (FAT)?

 

[Vingus]

Have you though about the National Guard? You won't get burned out doing that. I was AD for 14 years, not for the hours, but for the love of it.

If you go guard, you'll get some great heavy time along with some really great experiences.

It's not for everyone...good luck though.