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LXApilot

Owes More Than He Makes
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Posts
262
Dear Readers,

I thought I would take a few minutes to seek your advice and opinions regarding my current situation. As most of you remember from a well-read previous posting; I was laid-off for over 18 months from 2008 until earlier this year. I'm grateful for the position I've been able to have this year and am thankful for the opportunities I've been given in my current position. However, I'm now staring down a few serious decisions and figured I could get a few perspectives from my fellow pilots... Here is the situation:

I've been flying as a PIC for a charter company flying the Cessna Citation 650 (again) but the company and the aircraft base is 2,000 nm away from my home, family, life and friends. It's very hard to be away - I've been at this position since April 1st and have had a total of sixteen nights back at home since then. Due to the conditions/pay situation at my current job I'm living in a cheap hotel near the fbo where our aircraft is based. Renting a one bedroom apartment is the mathematical equivalent to staying at the hotel for almost two weeks. I just cross my fingers and hope that we're "on the road" at least that much per month. I haven't ponied up the dough to purchase a car here either- to ship my car to my location would be over $1,200. I figure that at some point; I'll want to return home and that would mean another $1,200... so I've given up on having a car out here.

We fly approximately 15-25 hours per month. (Not much at all). Our company pays us an "acceptable" but not "good" salary... I'm very grateful for it- but it is below NBAA averages. Our company also does not give us "per diem" in the traditional sense. Instead, the company provides us an allowance of $10 for breakfast, $15 for lunch and $20 for dinner. We pay our own meals and then later apply for reimbursement on each meal- but reimbursement is capped at the mentioned levels. I have never worked for a company that has worked in this manner. I'm grateful for getting something- but feel it is somewhat substandard.

Our company practices some strange policies... we get 8 hard days off every 3 months... but my understanding of the FAR's indicates we are supposed to get 13 days off per quarter. When I ask about making up the difference; our DO has explained that: "Our POI and I are on the same page..." explaining that on days we do not fly, they are retroactively counted as days off. Unfortunately, on these days we do not fly, myself and the first officer are not allowed to drink, we must answer our telephones and be within 60 minutes of being able to report for duty. Did I mention that they want us to meet those expectations 24 hours per day, 7 days per week? That means that if we want to go to a sporting event, the mall, beach, etc. that it is practically impossible without risking our job(s). I always believed that a day "off" meant that a crew-member was released from all company related duty- including the requirement to be available or answer the telephone. What are your opinions on that?

Also; at our company the policy is to not let the F/O fly the aircraft except on empty leg reposition flights. I believe this is extremely detrimental to the F/O's flying proficiency and development of skill and judgment on this aircraft. Furthermore, there are certain restrictions even on those empty legs... if that empty leg occurs on the first leg of the day, or in marginal conditions, then the PIC is required to fly the aircraft- further reducing the F/O's exposure to flying the aircraft. Is this a common practice at many charter companies/flight departments? When I was gaining experience I was always allowed to fly 1/2 of the legs of the aircraft. At the airlines this is also standard practice.

In addition to these practices the company also exhibits significantly hostile and unreasonable behavior towards flight crews. I won't go into too much detail because it might reveal too much on this forum... however, we are repeatedly told that we are treated this way because: "[we] just fly this little Citation" and that when we fly a "real" aircraft such as the Gulfstream, Global, BBJ then we can discuss increases in pay/work rules/days off, etc. I believe that this is also unreasonable? The Global is a great aircraft and is large for a corporate aircraft- but when placed on the ramp next to the 737 or even E190 it is quite small. It is surprising to me that company management exhibits this "big airplane" mentality which is usually reserved to certain pilots you might run into in flight operations.

In short, I'm getting burned out... I am ready to go look for work elsewhere. However, it still seems the job market is very tight and that I should preserve the position I've got. What are you all seeing/hearing out in the job market right now? In my hometown of Atlanta there is absolutely no hiring or corporate/charter jobs available in any capacity.

In addition to this conundrum I also am having to consider that a former employer has offered me the ability to go to G-450/G-550 initial in the next few months in consideration for some work I've done for them. However, their offer only lasts for another few months. There is no job associated with this training.. it is just a rating which they are willing to pay for as part of some compensation they owed to me. As many of you already know; this training is probably worth $60k and requires 5 weeks of attendance in class. My current position, described above, would never allow me the time off to attend this type rating course. To attend this class, I would have to tender my resignation. Would you quit to attend this G450/550 initial training? Would another rating be a better qualification for someone going into the contract pilot market?

I appreciate all responses and am interested to hear your opinions regarding my current position and the possible training scenario. Thanks in advance for your time.

- LXA
 
It's unfortunate that these situations exist in our business, I've been there too and it's tough, especially with a family.

In any case, I put to you that you already know the answer to your questions.

Good luck. It will work out.
 
Why put yourself and family through such hardship. There must be a better gig closer to home. You would not do this for a non flying job.
 
Why put yourself and family through such hardship. There must be a better gig closer to home. You would not do this for a non flying job.
Exactly. You would never consider putting up with that crap in a non-flying job. So these yo-yos violate FARs on a regular basis, keep you away from your family 95% of the time, treat you like crap, cheap out on you, exhibit 'hostile and unreasonable' behavior towards you, and base their bad behavior on the 'little Citatioin' that you fly?!? You should be treated well whether your flying a PA28 or an A380.
If you're gonna' take advice from a buncha' knuckleheads on-line, jdubya is on the money. You know the answer to your questions.
Good luck.


(no offense, jdubya :) )
 
Getta outta your situation ... the G550 type is worth about 50k and and with experience on the aircraft you will be marketable ... Good luck!
 
What you say hits home with me. I know, I get it. You hate this job, but your working. You miss your family, you have no life, but your paying the morgage, I get it trust me.
The only difference is you got the G wizz carrot hanging in front of you. this is what I would do. See if the old company would be willing to use you for contract work after the type rating. Even if it is only one trip a month or two, you would be getting experience in the airplane. If they agree go and start searching every company that has that airpalne and send resumes, letters, or whatever stating you are intrested in contract work after XX date. IF you can get one company to say they will use you once a month, jump on it. If the old company is giving you the type only as a thank you for you services and with no flying attached. that will be a hard pill to swallow.
that is what I would do with three mouths to feed and a morgage payment.
Good luck
 
In addition to this conundrum I also am having to consider that a former employer has offered me the ability to go to G-450/G-550 initial in the next few months in consideration for some work I've done for them. However, their offer only lasts for another few months. There is no job associated with this training.. it is just a rating which they are willing to pay for as part of some compensation they owed to me. As many of you already know; this training is probably worth $60k and requires 5 weeks of attendance in class. My current position, described above, would never allow me the time off to attend this type rating course. To attend this class, I would have to tender my resignation. Would you quit to attend this G450/550 initial training? Would another rating be a better qualification for someone going into the contract pilot market?


Nothing ventured, nothing gained.....

Sounds like you work for a typical dirtbag 135 charter outfit..... Those jobs are always (usually) available. I know you have to pay the bills, but will it be worth it if you lose your family over being gone that much?

Quit that crappy outfit and get that G-V rating with 450/550 differences. Network like hell while you are in school for 5 weeks, there is a decent chance you can pick up some contract work, or maybe get some leads for a job flying that aircraft.

Too many crap operators dangle the bigger airplane carrot in front of your face, but never manage to follow through. In the end, if you do get typed in a bigger jet, you are still dealing with the same bullsh!t at the same crap company, but now on a global scale. Hopefully they give you more than $10/$15/$20 for food overseas.....



In addition to these practices the company also exhibits significantly hostile and unreasonable behavior towards flight crews. I won't go into too much detail because it might reveal too much on this forum... however, we are repeatedly told that we are treated this way because: "[we] just fly this little Citation" and that when we fly a "real" aircraft such as the Gulfstream, Global, BBJ then we can discuss increases in pay/work rules/days off, etc. I believe that this is also unreasonable? The Global is a great aircraft and is large for a corporate aircraft- but when placed on the ramp next to the 737 or even E190 it is quite small. It is surprising to me that company management exhibits this "big airplane" mentality which is usually reserved to certain pilots you might run into in flight operations.


PS - I had a friend interview for a Falcon 900 part 135 job a while back. He was typed in the DA-50 and had mostly flown the 50/50EX. During the interview, the C.P. asked him how much "wide-body" time he had. My friend replied, about 1,500 hours in the 767. The C.P. said, "We meant 900 time." GMAFB
 
I wouldn't quit any job thats paying the bills for a Gulfstream/Global type rating. You want a good job, not a rating.

A type rating is worthless without decent PIC time - or far better yet - a good connection to a good job (not contract work IMO) Id pass on the rating and put the money they owe you in your hands. The whole idea that they wont hire you, but owe you money and are willing to trade it for discounted FSI slots and no guaranteed work days etc is just rather odd IMO, but whatever....Just pay me. Never knew a bank/mortgage holder or a grocery store that took FSI Pro Cards for payment.

There are plenty of wacko Gulfstream/Global jobs just like the one you have now, and there are plenty of unemployed Gulfstream pilots. I would not want to be job shopping with a brand new type rating right now. Some may point out that a type ratings worth 50-60K....its not. Go ahead and try and sell that piece of worthless paper, its worth $hit without a good job....Also, the vast majority of good jobs dont require the rating, they require a strong network and friends.

Keep in mind people also like to hire employed people...saying you quit in todays market because your previous dirtbag company kept you on call and only gave you $45 a day for food raises flags, like it or not. Of course - no job in this $hit business is worth wrecking a family over and everyone here will tell you to run away, but everyone here wont chip in for you mortgage or healthcare next month either (LOL)

If its that bad and you can financially sit on the sidelines/contract for however long it takes to find a good job today...go for it....but I would have 2-3 years income in the bank to blow! If not I would just keep paying for my own lunches (lol) and keep shopping for a better job while you are still employed.....then smile, run, and warn others about the job.

Good Luck!
 
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I have a tendency to chase QOL maybe a little too hard, but it has worked out for me so far. If your obligations are met toward your current employer I would consider walking. It has been mentioned that class is a great place to network and I would agree. I'm not the world's best networker, but it makes sense. Atlanta does seem like a tough market. As big as the city is it seems like there just isn't the volume of corporate aviation there as in similar size cities. However, I have a buddy where I live who took a leave from his heavy cargo outfit to pursue life for a while and has been eaten up with contract work in everything from lears and westwinds, to king airs. Your mileage may vary, but it can be done.

The hardest career decision I ever made was leaving a known quantity flying job where I was unhappy for a new job that I didn't know anything about but that I thought might really work out for me. It turns out that I was right. Change is a frightening thing and leaving a job in this market is also scary. I don't know what I would do if I had to find a job right now, but I'm also not sure I could stand being in your situation; away from everything for a bad job. Also, I will respectfully submit that while it is easier to get a job if you have a job, people are reasonable as long as you're not a year out of currency.

Bottom line for me: Don't let fear keep you in a crap situation. I was talking with my dad recently who said that he had a medical examiner tell him years and years ago: "You guys all come in here stressed out. If the job's not working for you then you need to f**king quit." Point being that stress about this stuff will send you to an early grave. Think it over, but not too much. I've learned that I can make just about any decision in about 30 minutes of real consideration just as well as in 30 days of agonizing.

Good luck, man.
 
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