Look like an uprising at ALPA is on the horizon

[Lear70]

It's in the section where the webmaster and his appointees, the moderators, are allowed leeway to manage the board as we see fit, to remove obnoxious or distracting posts that proliferate every single thread, like the AWA/USAirways issue.

I know it's important to all the guys living through it, but the rest of the board doesn't want to read about it.

If you aren't happy with that policy, feel free to email the Webmaster. [email protected].

/mod

 

[GogglesPisano]

If they had a plan other than "Hate ALPA?" I would listen, but until then, they can put one stupid planted post on FI and try to stir the mud.....

Anybody reading this whole thread just got punk'd by these guys.

BILL, you're off target on my post. I have no affiliation with this group. I found the link on the DALPA boards and it drew a lot of attention (it's probably been removed since.) I thought it might stimulate some discussion on FI where anonymous posters are at a bit more liberty to allow their feelings to be known.

As I stated previously, I doubt this group will get off the ground.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I'm not going to say it again. Bringing up the AWA/USAirways battle in ANY thread not SPECIFICALLY about AWA/USAirways issues will NOT be tolerated.

You *WILL* get a FI vacation.

/mod

Thanks Lear. That guy tries to hijack every thread!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

BILL, you're off target on my post. I have no affiliation with this group.

As I stated previously, I doubt this group will get off the ground.

Goggles,

No beef with you.....but you are helping out these monkeys. Not snorkeling ALPA kool-aid but I'm happy where we are rather than the alternative.

 

[Mama's Boy]

Sureley not ALPA

"I am serious... and don't call me Shirley" Rumack from 'Airplane'

 

[HoursHore]

If the majority of pilots (Delta and UAL) in ALPA want to form a different union because they are unhappy, why don't they just focus their attention on changing the existing union, instead of reinventing the wheel.

 

[dalad]

I'm going to start a union and call it "MY UNION!"....

It'll be everything I want....
It'll only cost me what I want to pay for dues.......
It will negotiate a contract only I want.......
It will only represent MY needs.........

How Stupid......You people make all these claims as if ALPA has raped your family and burned your house down......

This is a NON-EVENT at Delta....trust me, the spineless clowns won't even populate who they are on their website.....just a lot of hot air and I believe the only people who know of it are on FI. If they had a plan other than "Hate ALPA?" I would listen, but until then, they can put one stupid planted post on FI and try to stir the mud.....

Anybody reading this whole thread just got punk'd by these guys.

Uh, go to APC Mr. ALPA suckup and you will see over 30 pages on the subject in only one day!!! ACL has his finger in the dyke over there.

 

[Draginass]

If the majority of pilots (Delta and UAL) in ALPA want to form a different union because they are unhappy, why don't they just focus their attention on changing the existing union, instead of reinventing the wheel.

Maybe because the Delta and UAL MECs are part of the problem of giving away scope and everything to management and destroying the profession.

The final moment of truth will be if UAL grows some cahones and takes back scope, or gets on their knees and services Tilton again.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe because the Delta and UAL MECs are part of the problem of giving away scope and everything to management and destroying the profession.

The final moment of truth will be if UAL grows some cahones and takes back scope, or gets on their knees and services Tilton again.

How does ALPA get the blame for individual pilots voting collectvely to agree to weaken scope? If the union were DAP or UAP in house unions and the pensions were at stake would pilots have voted no to protect scope simply because they were in house?

What is the dues rate of this Delta in house union?

The representational structure?

Are the NWA pilots on board?

What about international issues?

IFALPA?

ALF-CIO?

ICAO?

Transportation and Trades Dept?

Int'l Transport Workers?

If LM can't keep his own union in order... how can he be expected to run ALPA National?

 

[Skywest Pylot]

If the majority of pilots (Delta and UAL) in ALPA want to form a different union because they are unhappy, why don't they just focus their attention on changing the existing union, instead of reinventing the wheel.

Because ALPA leadership (Prater) has Completely lost touch with the membership. Why not change it? Cause the "Good Old Boys" have entrenched themselves way too deep. I am a Delta pilot and I am tired of being sold out.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

If LM can't keep his own union in order... how can he be expected to run ALPA National?

Prater and Moak are birds of a feather. Moak has got to go as well. Why do dirtbags always seem to gravitate to these leadership positions? Maybe Moak should spend less time attending parties with folks like R.A. and more time representing pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is entertaining if nothing else....Ray Charles could have seen this train wreck coming within ALPA.

That being said, what changes by leaving ALPA? American/APA and Eagle/ALPA have the same issues.

As much as it pains me to say this, ALPA didn't create this mess. They didn't help, but they sure didn't create it. EGO by "big airplane" drivers created this mess. Somehow, we got off the track by thinking that seat number and propulsion made us different. That was a mistake.

This morphed into using the smaller airplanes to "build time" so that one could become a "real" airline pilot. All the while, those at the top, continued to sell of the bottom numbers to protect what they had....The spiral tightened.....

Now here we are, and we somehow think that we can change the letters of the organization that represents us....Go for it if you want, but it doesn't change the basic problem, or the attitude that got us here....

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Are you guys serious?

Have you read the website?

There is no plan. There is no volunteers listed. They are too scared to list names. You have to live in Tampa to join the elite leadership of this groundbreaking union.

They have vowed to spend dues money on hiring the best union labor talent in the industry. Guess who the best union labor talent in the industry works for.

Someone spends two hours creating a website and you are predicting the doom of ALPA.

Good luck with all that.

Now, I wonder WHY they are anonymous? Hmmmm.... :erm:

Nothing like fractured Union representation helping pilots get ahead. Just ask USAir!

Now who would want something like THAT to happen? :erm:

Delta Pilots Association • P.O. Box 17025 • Tampa, FL 33682-7025

http://www.fordharrison.com/showoffice.aspx?show=57 Ford & Harrison Tampa, FL

Delta's EVP of HR, from Anti-Pilot Union-Busting Law Firm Ford & Harrison
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=109308

Mike H. Campbell, 59, executive vice president human resources, labor and communications, joined Delta in 2006 from Atlanta-based law firm Ford & Harrison, where he was a founding partner. Oversaw human resources and labor relations for Continental in the 1990s.

AIR Conference - Airline Industrial Relations Conference http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...milies/mad.gif
http://aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm

"WHAT IS AIR CONFERENCE AIR CONFERENCE is a voluntary, non-profit association serving as the Washington-based labor policy organization of scheduled air carriers in the United States. Created in 1971 as a vehicle for dealing with accelerating labor costs on an industry-wide basis, AIR CONFERENCE provides for inter-carrier exchange of information on negotiations and other employee relations matters. It is the only legally approved forum for joint study of labor policy matters of common interest to the scheduled carriers.

AIR CONFERENCE is governed by a Board of Directors composed of the Chief Executive Officers of all member carriers. The President of the Conference serves for a term of one year without compensation except for expenses authorized by the Advisory Board. The Advisory Board is composed of the chief employee relations officers at each member carrier. Annual operating budgets are determined by the Advisory Board subject to approval by the Board of Directors. General management of all Conference programs is under the direction of the Vice President.
CLICK HERE to see our staff directory.
http://aircon.org/images/staff/staff_dir.gifhttp://aircon.org/images/staff/executive_dir.gifPresident
Michael H. Campbell
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Executive Vice President - Human Resources and Labor Relations "[/FONT]

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I SERIOUSLY hope you guys have stopped being so gullable and falling for these divisive tactics. They PREY on dissention at ALPA to accomplish their goals. With the amount of work and unity it would take to REALLY start another union (which does not seem to be occurring here) why not direct that energy at FORCING ALPA to accomplish what you are paying them big money to do?

Unite together as pilots and force change within your current union. Status quo should be unacceptable, but it shouldn't involve being victimized by a group who gets millions upon millions from your companies to keep money from pilots and pull tactics like this APPEARS to be.

 

[sinkrate]

This is entertaining if nothing else....Ray Charles could have seen this train wreck coming within ALPA.

That being said, what changes by leaving ALPA? American/APA and Eagle/ALPA have the same issues.

As much as it pains me to say this, ALPA didn't create this mess. They didn't help, but they sure didn't create it. EGO by "big airplane" drivers created this mess. Somehow, we got off the track by thinking that seat number and propulsion made us different. That was a mistake.

This morphed into using the smaller airplanes to "build time" so that one could become a "real" airline pilot. All the while, those at the top, continued to sell of the bottom numbers to protect what they had....The spiral tightened.....

Now here we are, and we somehow think that we can change the letters of the organization that represents us....Go for it if you want, but it doesn't change the basic problem, or the attitude that got us here....

ALPA pilots violated one of the fundamental concepts of business when they let go of small AC jobs. If you provide a service you do it for all customers. You even take on the little jobs with little revenue. If you don't you open a door for a competitor (regionals) to take more of your business.

ALPA attempted to limit the competition and wage losses by including the regional pilots in their union. So far that does not appear to have been successful.

The only way 'mainline' pilots will be able to end the competition is to buy back those jobs and include them on their list. So far no pilot group has been willing to pay the price to achieve that.

It is a classic business management problem that has played out a thousand times before in a number of different industries. It is a scenario that has been presented in business schools for decades. Do you protect your high margin business even though your market share is shrinking? Or do you take on low margin business to expand your market share and limit your competition?

When employees are involved in the decision and wages are the issue guess which way they go almost all the time. Pilots will protect that they have while giving up jobs until they go the way of the UAW. Instead of foreign labor taking their jobs it will be 'regional' labor.

In the mean time pilots blame ALPA for their unwillingness to pony up what it will take to unify the industry again.

If the Delta and United pilots leave ALPA there will be nothing preventing regionals being used to break a strike at a 'major' carrier. Sooner or later a carrier will try it.

 

[eaglesview]

If the majority of pilots (Delta and UAL) in ALPA want to form a different union because they are unhappy, why don't they just focus their attention on changing the existing union, instead of reinventing the wheel.

Reality is that we are out numbered in ALPA by RJ pilots.