LOI for loss of seperation

[Vladimir Lenin]

i cant add anything useful, but i did get the dvd a few weeks back too
don't fight it without good representation

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Amish Rake......Its a visual cue more then anything, but AMASS will alarm if a vehicle gets to close to an active runway.

 

[HS125]

The tower personnel had no discretion in whether or not this one got turned in. They will pull all relevent tapes/radar plots, fill out the forms, and then forward all of it to the LOCAL FSDO for further processing. You will be contacted either by phone by an Inspector or you will just get a certified letter. If you get the phone call I would highly recommend just telling them exactly what happened while being as "compliant" as possible. Some on here will disagree but I just don't see the point of taking the "I have contacted an attorney" route and just leaving it at that. This will only gaurantee that it goes on through the process of enforcement action. Since this was a runway incursion I can virtually guarantee that it is going to anyway. Like the other guy said, it's a hot button topic currently. This sounds like a very cut and dry case, I highly doubt that an attorney is going to save you. If you just be a good guy and own up to it the worst you'll probably get is a "Letter of Warning" given that you have an otherwise clean record.

The last thing you want to do is own up to it. Be compliant yes but don't give them anymore information for them to hang you with. There is no need for you to do the inspectors job for them. You may or may not get a phone call, but you will be asked to write a letter in your own words explaining you side of the story. Rest assured, if you do write a letter it will be used against you. Let your attorney write the letter for you he/she should be able to mitigate the damage that the letter will cause.

 

[ReverseSensing]

The last thing you want to do is own up to it. Be compliant yes but don't give them anymore information for them to hang you with. There is no need for you to do the inspectors job for them. You may or may not get a phone call, but you will be asked to write a letter in your own words explaining you side of the story. Rest assured, if you do write a letter it will be used against you. Let your attorney write the letter for you he/she should be able to mitigate the damage that the letter will cause.

Agreed. Pretend you're avoiding crew scheduling and don't answer the phone. Get a lawyer to return the call and write the letter. Nothing you can say directly to an inspector now will be guaranteed to help your cause, and it could do you a great deal of harm depending on whether the inspector is predisposed to screw you or not.

 

[h25b]

The last thing you want to do is own up to it. Be compliant yes but don't give them anymore information for them to hang you with. There is no need for you to do the inspectors job for them. You may or may not get a phone call, but you will be asked to write a letter in your own words explaining you side of the story. Rest assured, if you do write a letter it will be used against you. Let your attorney write the letter for you he/she should be able to mitigate the damage that the letter will cause.

I am speaking of this case in particular. This one is a slam dunk for an FAA enforcement action. On top of it all it's a runway incursion involving a passenger carrying airliner and a highly qualified ATP driving a Learjet (i.e. the guy was supposed to know what he was doing). This one will be going through the paces and WILL result in at least a Letter of Warning. He can count on it. In my humble opinion going the lawyer route will pretty much eliminate his chances of getting a Letter of Warning which goes away after 2 years. If I were in his shoes I would be hoping for the Letter of Warning.

The FAA most likely already has witnesses (the Tower Controllers and any other pilots within eyesight) and he most likely made the phone call to the number he was provided which has proven that he was the PIC involved. Am I missing something ??? HIS GOOSE IS COOKED. In a sense, he has already "owned up to it." For crying out loud there are at least 2 FAA Operations Inspectors that I know of that frequent this board, by matching his profile and description of the event he very publicly just cooked his own goose. For the love of God, he even titled the thread "LOI for loss of separation." Gee Whiz, he just admitted that he caused a loss separation. Heck, at this point calling a lawyer will get him killed. Any legal counsel I know of would shoot him immediately for posting this thread.

I swear I must be the only realist left on this forum. See below...

I got the "call this phone number", was told it would be reported and am now waiting for the LOI and enforcement from the FAA.

Not answering that phone call is the dumbest advice I could imagine given these circumstances. You guys need to remember that the whole point of this entire process in the eyes of the FAA Inspector is to "insure compliance." So not answering the phone or responding in any way to the letter of investigation just proves to the assigned inspector that the case needs to go to enforcement action to "insure compliance." It is unheard of for an enforcement action to be stopped after it goes beyond this initial contact.

I would however agree that having a lawyer help with the written response to the letter of investigation is most likely wise. If you get the letter instead of a phone call you really don't have much hope of getting away with just a verbal counseling session and the best you can hope for is the Letter of Warning. If the assigned Ops. Inspector feels like their is hope of resolving easily I'd think they'd give you a phone call before writing the letter, but this is just my humble, ill-advised opinion. Take it for what it's worth since it's free.

 

[avbug]

When issued a letter of investigation, the only purpose is to obtain evidence to use against you. Don't respond without consulting an attorney. Don't engage in a teleconference or call to the FSDO without consulting with an attorney.

The hope that a "compliant" attitude will stave off enforcement action is slim and for the most part futile.

Certainly on the rare occasion a response to a LOI may result in a tabling of the matter, but in all cases, anything you say wil be used against you. If enforcement action takes place, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent, and convicted before you have an opportunity to defend yourself; your words get used against you in the appeal process.

Consult the attorney.

 

[Guillotine007]

I'm imagining that in order to accomplish a 180 in a lear on the taxiway leading to the runway, you're going to have to get pretty far into the runway area.

it can be done on a dime

get a lawyer
admit nothing

 

[FL420]

Review the FAA ASRP Immunity Policy in Advisory Circular 00-46D at: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity_nf.htm

Aviation Safety Reporting Program
This circular describes the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Aviation Safety Reporting Program (ASRP) which utilizes the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) as a third party to receive Aviation Safety Reports.

The easiest and most painless way out of this is to get the FAA to allow you to enroll in the FAA Runway Incursion Information Evaluation Program. The following quote explains:

The FAA Office of Runway Safety and Operational Services, in partnership with the AOPA Air Safety Foundation, announces a powerful new learning tool to help pilots and maintenance technicians taxiing aircraft avoid runway incursions. Click below to become enlightened!! If involved in a runway incursion, the FAA will normally be more lenient to those who have passed the Runway Safety course and who meets other criteria.


More info. can be found at:
http://www.faa.gov/runwaysafety/cockpit.cfm

The AOPA Air Safety Foundation Online Course Runway Safety Program can be found at:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/online_courses/

I recommend everyone take this course. It has good info. for all experience levels.

Be smart and good luck.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Not answering that phone call is the dumbest advice I could imagine given these circumstances.

Just so it's clear: I'm not suggesting not complying with the "call this number" instruction immediately after a situation like this -- I'm not sure it can be avoided. That's not the call you have to fear the most.

The follow-up call by an inspector is the one I would avoid until seeking legal advice.

 

[h25b]

Just so it's clear: I'm not suggesting not complying with the "call this number" instruction immediately after a situation like this -- I'm not sure it can be avoided. That's not the call you have to fear the most.

The follow-up call by an inspector is the one I would avoid until seeking legal advice.

I think everyone is misreading my opinion as generally good advice under all circumstances. I AM NOT and would generally agree with most of what everyone else is saying. I am just not going to blow smoke up this poor guy's rear because he's really in a bad way. In his case I would RUN (not walk) to the nearest U.S. Post Office and mail out the ASRS Form certified mail and accept the first FAA phone call (I doubt he's going to get one, he's just going to get the letter) while being polite just confirm previously volunteered information. He can nicely say that he would appreciate an opportunity to discuss the situation personally when he's had a chance to seek counsel.

I would suggest taking that initial call from the Inspector as a way to gauge what you're dealing with. You don't have to say really anything other than to confirm information already given and you're going to have to submit a letter no matter what.