Logging x-c time

[cougar6903]

When I did my private training, the xc night flight and 10 t/o's and landings were done all in one flight. My CFI logged it as 3 hours XC, is this correct? Should the time that the other 9 landings and takeoffs took be subtracted from the 3.0? Will this raise questions on an airline interview?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Don't know whether it will raise questions on an airline interview (I'm not in the business, but I strongly suspect they won't be too interested in your student pilot experience - it's sort of like asking a doctor what he did in kindergarten), but it's legit from an FAR standpoint. No rule says only one landing per customer on a cross country.

 

[FlyinTim]

as long as you go the distance the rest count...

 

[minitour]

Had a student pilot just...hmm...two weeks ago? Was ready for his checkride except OH NO! His solo cross country (150nm total) and his total solo time were a tad low...I was with another student in the pattern when he got back and was surprised (wasn't expecting him until later). I just told him to do a bunch of touch and gos. He could log it all cross country and passed his checkride the next day. Examiner never said anything. You should be fine.

-mini

 

[nosehair]

FAR 61.1(b)(3) Cross-country time means...."time aquired during a flight that includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure."

Pretty sure any lawyer would have no trouble convincing a judge or any group of people that the cross-country portion of the flight would end at the first landing.

Cougar, Midlife is pretty much right about an airline interview - they won't be too concerned about the details of your training, they are more interested in what you have done since your training.

However, as Mini said, when students arrive early from a cross-country, a dilema exists. When he said "a tad early", I'm thinking "a couple touch-and-go's" to get the required time, but then he said "a bunch of touch-and-go's", ...so I have to jump in here with an observation.

I think it is a technical fact that cross-country time should be only that time from take-off to the first landing at another airport. I also think it is ok, in training, to include at least one additional traffic pattern at the other airports.
I think it is not ok to allow a bunch of touch and go's at the home airport. I think proper planning should include not getting back early. If you see that the first part of the trip was early, the student should do a couple patterns at one or more of the x/c destination airports. This would be stretching the technical definition, but would still be within the spirit of the regulations concerning training. But to add on an extra 20-30 minutes at the end home town airport as x/c is clearly violating both the letter and the spirit.

The problem is that students catch on to this corner cutting technique and intend it. It would be different if people didn't do that. Sometimes, the trip just happens faster, and if that were the only time it happened, Mini's solution would be practical, but I see students "planning" on a quick 50+ mile "out-and-back" with a dozen T&G's to "build x/c time".

 

[minitour]

FAR 61.1(b)(3) Cross-country time means...."time aquired during a flight that includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure."

Pretty sure any lawyer would have no trouble convincing a judge or any group of people that the cross-country portion of the flight would end at the first landing.

Not so sure about that. Well...perhaps. But I'm willing to bet (and I'm not a betting man) that you could probably get 6 lawyers, 6 judges and 6 different answers on that one.

My interpretation says that time aquired during a flight counts as cross country time. That means the time during the whole flight...to me. And I'm not any FAA official, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take it for what it's worth.

Anyone have any "official" ruling on that?

Just curious.

-mini

 

[fokkers&beer]

I agree with the lot. Make a landing or two at the destination, or your home or departure airport, but for a cross country you have to go at least 50 nm non stop. He did'nt have you do touch and gos enroute and not go 50 non stop did he? Anyway for an interview, don't worry, as for the DE, thats another story.

 

[CFIse]

but for a cross country you have to go at least 50 nm non stop.

Which is not true - legally you can stop every 10 miles (or pick a number) as long as ONE of the landings is 50NM straight line from the point of departure (and the point of departure can be a fuzzy definition as well).

I'm not saying it's great training - I'm just saying that's the way it is.

 

[hangarflying]

Hey All,

Check out the Part 61 FAQs on the FAA website:

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/infoforgeneralaviation/index.cfm

It answers the questions regarding cross-country somewhere in the first few pages. Hope this helps.

 

[minitour]

Which is not true - legally you can stop every 10 miles (or pick a number) as long as ONE of the landings is 50NM straight line from the point of departure (and the point of departure can be a fuzzy definition as well).

I thought the same thing until I read...
61.109(a)(5)(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

I was shocked...it does say one segment.

I thought it used to say that about the "long commercial XC" (300nm+) but it doesn't...or it didn't when I did my flight.

-mini

 

[fokkers&beer]

I understand that its only one leg that needs to be 50 NM. After they put the night XC requirement in, I would always take my students to a field 55NM away, then make them land at every airport on the way home, just to get them practice with PCL, and night ops. I felt as though that worked pretty well, I have no beef with that. I was just wondering if he did it on both legs.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I thought the same thing until I read...
61.109(a)(5)(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

I was shocked...it does say one segment.

That only applies to the so-called "long" solo cross country required for the private certificate, not to any of the other cross countries.

 

[minitour]

That only applies to the so-called "long" solo cross country required for the private certificate, not to any of the other cross countries.

Correct...................ooooooh...now I get what y'all're sayin' (double word score for "y'all're").

-mini