Logging time on long-haul flights

[ATRCAPT]

I'm new to the long-haul flying game, and was curious how to go about logging time. We often have 3 crew members on the MD11 with one acting as an reserve pilot. As far as the airlines are concerned, who gets to log what?

 

[smfav8r]

If I recall correctly, you log all of the time since all three of you are required crew-members.

In other words, as far as the FAA is concerned, the entire block time goes towards your 30/60/90 day times. (121 supplemental ops)

You need to becareful with any domestic flying and time conflicts, 121 supplemental rules are rather grey and up to many interpretations.

The whole 121 supplemental rules in the 48 contigious, etc.

I haven't sat as an IRO for many years. As the captain, you log the whole trip as PIC even if your in the back sleeping.

I'm currently out of the non-scheds, so the rules may have changed.

 

[typhoonpilot]

FAR 61.51:

(2)An Airline Transport Pilot may log as PIC time all of the flight time while acting as PIC of an operation requiring an ATP....

(f) Logging SIC time. A person may log SIC flight time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the SIC requirements of 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot...
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and IR for the aircraft being flown...

This pretty clearly shows that a Captain can log the total time airborne if he is the only PIC on board, while an F.O. may only log that time which he is in the seat. As a matter of principle I only log the time I am in the seat even though I am the only PIC on board.

The question gets a little dodgy where IROs are concerned because they are type rated in the airplane, but they aren't the PIC. Your airline should have guidance on it. If you are really concerned just start a separate column for IRO time in the left seat in your logbook.

and just so we are clear, PIC means the person who:
(1) Has the final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated PIC before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type ratings, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

Typhoonpilot

 

[typhoonpilot]

smfav8r brings up a good point in regards to flight and duty time limitations. My answer was more in regards to what to put in your personal logbook. I don't have a copy of the 121 regs handy, but my airline ( operating under JAR type regs ) just got into a little hot water because they had the Airbus guys factoring time for long haul. The local regulatory authority finally came down and said you can't do that.

I think this may be where some of the confusion lies. Logging time is answered in FAR 61, while Flight and Duty Time Limits are answered in FAR 121, or as appropriate for your operation.


TP

 

[Clyde]

I'm new to the long-haul flying game, and was curious how to go about logging time. We often have 3 crew members on the MD11 with one acting as an reserve pilot. As far as the airlines are concerned, who gets to log what?

Good question. FWIW, I had some lines as an IRO and some as an FO when I was on the 767. I never logged any flight time as IRO, even when I occupied a seat. I logged time only when I was assigned FO for the trip.

 

[smfav8r]

I was referring to 121 supplemental rules which differ from JAR and FLAG operations.

I don't know what airline or what rules ATRCAPT is under?

I could be wrong, (like I said, it's been some time since I flew SIC/IRO in international ops, almost 10 years) but I thought both FO's logged the entire leg since it counts towards their 30/60/90 day times.

But logging the trip as IRO or FO would likely make everyone happy looking at your logbook.

 

[tsky]

ATR CApt!!! Whats up, greetings from your past life!

 

[psysicx]

What about the military cargo flights? Don't they usually have 3 or 4 people on each flight? Do they just log time when there in the seat?