Logging of Level C or D Simulator Time

AlphEcho

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I have recently been able to get some time in a level C 747-200 simulator. The instructor has a type rating in the aircraft, an ATP, and a CFI but no MEI. I assumed that I would be able to log it as plain old simulator time, and was going to do that just for fun, to have something interesting in the book. However, some other instructors at this place said that I can log it not just as total time but also as multi-engine, provided that the instructor is qualified (and they say this instructor is.) I am pretty wary about doing this, but this advice comes from pretty reliable sources. The sim is approved by the FAA for use in a 142/121 training curriculum, through which people receive their type ratings. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of issue? I'm not paying for the time and I've learned a ton in the few hours I've flown it and I would be satisfied with not logging anything at all. But, if I can legitimately add to my multi or total time I am inclined to do it. Any advice?
 

fly26

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Regardless of whether the Instructor has an MEI, I personally would log it only as SIM time and NOT total time or MULTI time.

Further along on your career path a few hours won't matter much and could spark questions and raise eyebrows from interviewers if the time is included in your numbers. You don't want to raise any red flags when you get to that stage.

Remember, what's legal flight-time per the FAR's does not always jive with what the airlines want on their applications.

Good Luck. I wish I could have flown a 747 when I had 300 hours.
 

flx757

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I would advise logging any simulator time, no matter what level or what the circumstances, as simulator time ONLY. It is not flight time, therefore you should not log it as total time, or multi time...or any time, except simulator time.
 

501261

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Think about it, of course the instuctors are telling you, you can log it, because they are all logging it. I'm sure under some FAR's you can log Flight Time in a Level C or D sim (just like 3 people can log PIC in a Seminole), but for your sake I would only log it a Sim only!

What would you do if you where a Chief Pilot and you brought some guy in who claimed to have 2000 hours of GV time only to find out 1950 of it was in a sim! D$mn right you show him the door in a very rude way.

Bottomline is that its legal, but trying claiming sim time as "Flighttime" is only going to get you screwed in the long run.
 

AlphEcho

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I appreciate your advice so far guys, and it confirms what I had suspected. I'll just throw it in the book as sim time and leave it at that. It's been a great enough learning experience going through the ground school and sitting in the sim that it would be too good to be true if I could add to my total time as well! Now back into some actual aircraft!...(even if they're not 747's.) Thanks again.
 

JetPilot500

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This is not something to concern yourself with. People blow this subject way out of proportion.

As far as the FAA is concerned, once you have your ATP the only thing they care about is showing currency. Instrument time counts for currency in any approved FTD or Simulator. Landings count for currency in a Level C or D simulator. So for currency purposes, you can log it. The FAA could care less if you put time in the "Total Flight Time" column.

As far as airlines or chief pilots are concerned, the small percentage of time that you will most likely log in a Sim won't make much of a difference. I do know that Southwest Airlines specifically doesn't permit sim time to count, so for them, just subtract it out.

In conclusion, do whatcha like! I log it as flight time, but at this point of my career, no one cares.

Jetpilot500
 

Speedtree

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unless i forget my written, an atp can only give instruction under a commercial 121 program or some other such wording. since you are not part of the airline's program i'm not sure he is a legal flight instructor for you.

i would only log it as sim time, not flight time for the self-evident definitions of each. it makes things much easier if you keep them separate.
 

Limeyflyer

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My question to you is can it be Multi PIC even though it is not Flight Time????
 

dogg

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I think what you want to do is decide if some day you are going to be interviewed for a flying job.

If the answer is no then log what you like where you like etc.. as long as it meets the FAA's interpretation for time.

If the answer is yes then you want to look at your log book in a different way. Put all sim time in a separate column and note what the simulator was and if you were being instructed. Have the instructor sign these entries but do not include them in type of total flying or multi or instrument column. What the FAA says is legal and how hiring depts view time are completely different.

Your total time should show dual(any time you are being instructed, regardless of ratings), PIC (any time that you are responsible for the airplane) and SIC (any time you are flying under a program that requires an sic because of type or because of the operation being conducted) and that is it.
However it is a good idea to log all flight time that may not fall under these categories. Just dont add it in to your totals and make notes in the comments section about the flight.
 

PUflight

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I hope I put an end to this. I went to Purdue and have around 120 hours in 727 sims, level A and C. In both of those instances you can only log it as simulator experience. That's how it is in my log book and it cannot be counted toward TT, multi-time, instrument time, just plain old sim time! Oh yeah, this also did come up on interviews I did have, for an internship with a major and at a regional! So it would be wise to know the airplane if you are gonna log it. Hope that helps clarify things.
 
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MasterFly

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According to FAR Part 61.1(b)(12), training time or dual given in an aircraft, sim or even an FTD is considered "pilot time".

I log sim and FTD dual time as part of my total pilot time according to this reg, but not as airplane, PIC, or ME time.
 

501261

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"Pilot Time" is not "FLIGHT TIME" as defined by FAR1!

Do you really think an extra 10-20 hours of total time you logged in the sim is going to help you get hired, considering how screwed you would be if I was interviewing you and I saw you adding your sim time to your total time?

On the other hand; it is YOUR logbook if you think 1720 hours looks better than 1700 hours, do it.
 

The FNG

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FTD as Total Time...and I thought sim time was beyond the pale. Come interview with my company, it'll be short.
 

dogg

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The long and the short of it: It does not matter what the FAA says is legal or not. They are not going to hire you. And the 20 or 30 or 100 hrs of ftd/levelc/d/sim time is not the difference between being hired or not. No one that interviews wants to see anything but flying time in your total time nor do they want to see part 91 repo pic time as part of your pic total. If you did not sign for the airplane or it did not go in the air than dont use it as part of your total. Log it definitely but dont put it in your total time
 

skydiverdriver

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I have flown a lot of sims, both as a private pilot and now as part of my airline training. I don't log any of it. I know, when you are new, every hour seems like a big deal, and you want your logbook to be as full as possible. Flying a professional type sim is very good experience, but as you can see, it is also controversial to log it. When you finally get that real flying job, you will laugh at yourself for being so concerned about a few hours in a sim. Do what you want, but I say keep it out of your logbook and there will be no questions about it. Better to keep something out that might hurt you, than to put something in that MIGHT help you. It's just not worth it. Good luck to you.
 

LegacyDriver

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501261 said:
"Pilot Time" is not "FLIGHT TIME" as defined by FAR1!

Do you really think an extra 10-20 hours of total time you logged in the sim is going to help you get hired, considering how screwed you would be if I was interviewing you and I saw you adding your sim time to your total time?

On the other hand; it is YOUR logbook if you think 1720 hours looks better than 1700 hours, do it.

I don't know about your situation, but I am in a bind with insurance requirements for a job I just failed to get because I am 24 hours short on Instrument Time. I need 300 and have 276. The question I'm wondering is this:

If I have 35 hours of Instrument time in a Level "D" Simulator can I log that as "Simulated Instrument" in my logbook? If so, then I have the 300 hours required of me.

What a pain.
 

CaSyndrm

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If the FAA certified the sim for C or D and allows type ratings and LOFTS then why not log it in any column you want that applies. The FAA has answered the question for you by the certification of the simm. As far as job interviews go I understand the first job is tough to get but don't have tunnel vision and remember you are a professional and if some book nerd Chief Pilot disqualifies you for logging what the Feds approved then is this really somebody you want to work for?
 
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