Logging IFR in two crew environment

[citabriapilot]

In a two crew environment does the captain log all instrument time, or only the instrument time when its actually his/her leg? With the regs saying " A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person OPERATES the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions." Some of the regs specifically say SOLE MANIPULATOR, while this does not.


What about night?

 

[larryiah]

Logging time

I've never even thought about it.

 

[canyonblue737]

This always was a question and different POIs or FSDOs will give different answers... SO WILL DIFFERENT COMPANIES DURING THEIR INTERVIEWS. For example one guy I knew years ago interviewed at United and the interview gave him a problem with some legs where he logged actual but no landing indicating it wasn't his leg. He tried to explain the FARs etc. and plead his case but the interview didn't go well.

Point is this... I don't think it is wrong to log all IMC time in a 2 crew enviroment regardless of if you are at the controls that leg, but I wouldn't recommend it since others may not have that same viewpoint later in your career, no matter if they are right or wrong. Always be conservative with your IMC time, most airlines balk if it is over 10% of your total...

Also once at a regional airline / corporate gig continue to be very conservative because someday when interviewing at a major level they KNOW you have plenty of IMC experience (ie. they don't evaluate your experience based on your total IMC time anymore) but they will evaluate your honesty based on if your totals in any category, including IMC, appear out of whack with their accurate or inaccurate presumptions of what those totals SHOULD be for your total time.

As for night I have never seen that same problem, it should be logged regardless of if you are flying at the controls.

 

[hyflyt560]

What if the autopilot is in use?

The Portland FSDO told me on two seperate occassions that if it's IMC, both pilots can log actual.

Here's one: One of our corporate planes is a King Air 300. If I let the other pilot (required by insurance) fly, he cannot log the time. Yet, if he does an approach, landing (night or day), etc. he can use that event towards currency.

 

[414Flyer]

Provided you are both required crewmembers, it only makes sense that you can both log it. IMC is a condition of flight, and being an PIC or SIC, or PF or PNF, does not change that.

 

[Ty Webb]

I only logged my legs as IFR when I was the PF . . . but it would seem that at this level. "logging" the IFR time is really reporting the flight conditions at the time you served as a required crew member.

The reason I say this is that in order to perform a Cat 3, both crewmembers must be current Cat 3, yet either of them "flying" the approach makes both pilots current, regardless of who was the PF or PNF. . . . .

Regardless, as someone else said, the most important thing is that they are looking for honesty and conformity to the regs, not a few more hours in the soup.

 

[Caveman]

Most people I know, including me, log night no matter who is flying and log IFR only when it's their leg. I do agree that the regs are pretty clear and when 2 pilots are required both may log it. Why do I treat night differently? I dunno, it just seems more appropriate.

 

[flx757]

On an aircraft/flight that "requires" two crewmembers...both crewmembers are "operating" the aircraft. Therefore, any "condition of flight", such as actual instrument or night, may be logged by both cremembers.

 

[StaySeated]

I might be lazy but...

I haven't filled in those columns (night, ifr, landings, etc...) in over ten years.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'm of the opinion that BOTH PIC and SIC may log actual, since it is considered a condition of flight as much as night.