Logging actual instrument time?

[Flylo]

As I understand it, the FAA requires that ONLY the time spent flying on instruments in actual IMC is to be recorded in your logbook as instrument time.

Does everyone adhere to this rule as closely as possible? I find it hard to believe that someone flying on a cross country instrument flight plan, that takes you in and out of IMC, will actually record (even by a rough estimate) the time they were between layers or "on top" as VFR time, and only the time they were actually "in the soup", as instrument time.

Am I wrong? Do you do your best to keep the two seperate as a general rule?

I'd hate to be the only guy in the sky trying to keep all that straight if no one else is. I can just see me with a stopwatch: ...... ok, I was in that cloud for 16 seconds, been in the sun for 39 seconds now, hmmm ..... looks like I might only be 965 feet from that cloud .....ooops, here comes another one ........ where's that #@%#* approach plate ....etc.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[joeg252]

If you see it log it, if your in it double it. Just kidding(LOL).

 

[siucavflight]

If you see it log it, if your in it double it. Just kidding(LOL).

Thats the same rule I use for logging multi time.

 

[Vik]

If I'm in the clouds, I guess, a very very conservative guess.

You can't waste time timing how long you're in the clouds. If you just penetrate and cloud and pop out in 5 seconds, I don't count that at all.

If I'm in the soup, I'm too busy concentrating on the instruments to sit and time it with a stop watch.

As I understand it, the FAA requires that ONLY the time spent flying on instruments in actual IMC is to be recorded in your logbook as instrument time.

Does everyone adhere to this rule as closely as possible? I find it hard to believe that someone flying on a cross country instrument flight plan, that takes you in and out of IMC, will actually record (even by a rough estimate) the time they were between layers or "on top" as VFR time, and only the time they were actually "in the soup", as instrument time.

Am I wrong? Do you do your best to keep the two seperate as a general rule?

I'd hate to be the only guy in the sky trying to keep all that straight if no one else is. I can just see me with a stopwatch: ...... ok, I was in that cloud for 16 seconds, been in the sun for 39 seconds now, hmmm ..... looks like I might only be 965 feet from that cloud .....ooops, here comes another one ........ where's that #@%#* approach plate ....etc.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Flymach2]

Originally posted by Flylo

As I understand it, the FAA requires that ONLY the time spent flying on instruments in actual IMC is to be recorded in your logbook as instrument time.

Not exactly. There is no mention of IMC in § 61.51(g). Instrument flight conditions does not always mean IMC.

Regards

 

[Vik]

You could log actual in perfectly clear weather.

Its night, you're over the desert, there is zero horizon, there is no way to use outside references to determine the attitude, altitude, etc., of the aircraft. You can log actual b/c you're flying by reference to instruments only.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Originally posted by Flylo

Not exactly. There is no mention of IMC in § 61.51(g). Instrument flight conditions does not always mean IMC.

And IMC does not always mean actual instrument flight conditions.

 

[crzepilot]

If I need to fly the plane by instruments to keep it up right and on course by reference to instruments than i would log it. Even if I am above an overcast layer.

 

[siucavflight]

If I need to fly the plane by instruments to keep it up right and on course by reference to instruments than i would log it. Even if I am above an overcast layer.

I think you would get yourself into trouble on an airline interview if you responded this way when they were asking you about your logbook.

In order to log actual instrument time. It is the time when controlled the aircraft solely by refrence to the flight instruments in weather less than VFR as defined in the type of airspace that you are in.

 

[midlifeflyer]

In order to log actual instrument time. It is the time when controlled the aircraft solely by reference to the flight instruments in weather less than VFR as defined in the type of airspace that you are in.

FWIW crzepilot's definition pretty much tracks FAA doctrine

==============================
"Actual" instrument flight conditions occur when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft.
-- 1984 FAA Legal opinion
==============================

This is from the famous "moonless night" opinion saying that a pilot with no instrument rating may log actual instrument time in VMC.

(leaving open the question of what it was about the nature of the overcast that required the use of instruments to remain upright.)

 

[pilotmyf]

You could log actual in perfectly clear weather.

Its night, you're over the desert, there is zero horizon, there is no way to use outside references to determine the attitude, altitude, etc., of the aircraft. You can log actual b/c you're flying by reference to instruments only.

I'd be very, very careful with that one.

 

[siucavflight]

You could log actual in perfectly clear weather.

Its night, you're over the desert, there is zero horizon, there is no way to use outside references to determine the attitude, altitude, etc., of the aircraft. You can log actual b/c you're flying by reference to instruments only.

I would love to see how they take that on an airline interview. You are in VFR weather logging actual instrument time?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I always wonder about those "but will the airline like it that you followed the rules?" comments. Considering all of the violations that FAA inspectors tend to find in some of these operations, I guess it's not that surprising.

 

[minitour]

I would love to see how they take that on an airline interview. You are in VFR weather logging actual instrument time?

So they're going to look at my logbook date, go to a weather source, look up the weather for that day, verify it with my route of flight and then ask me why I logged instrument time?

-mini

 

[Vik]

To both pilotmyf and siucavflight :

Logging actual instrument conditions at night, with no horizon or method of telling you what the plane is doing is 100% legal. There is no question about it and I've asked many senior flight instructors and 4 different examiners and they've all told me .. if its night, you can't see the horizon and you are 100% on the instruments to determine the status of the plane, you can log it as actual.

Ask on ProPilot's FAR forum. I'm sure you'll get the same answer from "Doc"

I'd be very, very careful with that one.