Livable wage

[DetoXJ]

I don't know why so many pilots possess the mentality that assumes airline pilots are the only profession that has to shell out some money for college and training. Regardless of whether you are a pilot, teacher, social worker, engineer, computer programmer, ect. you more than likely left college with debt and student loans. I know pilots have the added expense of flight training but most pilots I fly with did not attend big buck universities like U of Michigan or Northwestern where tuition costs 35K per year. Students graduate these institutions with mega student loans and debt and go on to become teachers and social workers and politicans and they get by just fine making middle class wages. A lot of airline pilots will be in for a very rude awakening when they go find out that Home Depot and McDonalds only start out at $7 or $8 per hour. If you want to drive a bus or haul garbage then you can maybe find a $13 or $15 per hour job. It is completely naive to believe that $40,000 - $50,000 jobs exist in abundance. $60K - $80K per year even rarer. NWA average pilot salary after 1113c hearings, good luck replacing that income. Rude awakenings await.

 

[XJohXJ]

* deleted *

 

[D'Angelo]

You're right. I misspoke, but my argument remains the same.

Here it is: A "livable wage" for an airline pilot is higher than a "livable wage" for say a "post office employee."

Why? Lost income and savings (most likely incurring debt) in the pursuit of a career vs a career which costs less (or nothing) to attain.

A flawed question to begin with, but an idea we should all ponder (assuming most reading this forum are pilots)... since most likely in todays environment we'll never recover from the lost savings.

It doesn't matter what you paid to get your career. You knew the pay coming in and we we do make a livable wage. Is it fair thats a discussion for another day. Quite frankly just because you paid a lot for your training doesn't mean any company owes you a thing for it. YOU made the choice to go into debt YOU Chose to take the risk and YOU knew full well all the implications. If you did not then you need to educate yourself better before making a major decision. Military people did not have to pay for their training with money. They only had to pay with service to their country for X amount of years. Some people are trust fund babies, others paid as they went and have no debt. YOU made the choice to go into debt therefore no one should feel pity for anyone that is in debt. Its about darned time people take responsibility for themselves. I went the civilian route however saved and paid as I went. Took a bit longer but im debt free baby. HOLLA. In other words you knew the pay wasnt enough to recover your costs for a long time going in. This is what we call a gamble. It looks like you lost for now. If you goto a major you may make it back. Either way take some responsibility for your choices.

 

[D'Angelo]

Its also important to note many other jobs require lots of education with little payback. Pilots think they are the only ones that pay a lot for an education and they think they are the only ones suffering a plight! again remind me who made the choice to take on that debt. Oh thats right no one but yourselves! Sorry you dont deserve extra compensation solely because of this.

 

[DetoXJ]

Also, many professional career fields require a college degree. Being an airline pilot does not. A lot of new up and coming pilots went from zero time to the right seat of a regional in less than a year with no degree. Many senior Legacy Captains answered newpaper ads back in the 60's and 70's and started their airline career with very minimal experience. Human nature is to be jealous and bitter towards individuals who get / got their shake without paying the same dues as you to get the same. A lot of airline pilots don't have 4 year degrees because one isn't required, just prefered. I'm suprised that no one is pissed at the aviation universities who brain wash the people who think they will be living the dream. Try becoming a teacher or an attorney or an engineer without any college.

 

[405]

If you want to drive a bus or haul garbage then you can maybe find a $13 or $15 per hour job. It is completely naive to believe that $40,000 - $50,000 jobs exist in abundance. $60K - $80K per year even rarer. NWA average pilot salary after 1113c hearings, good luck replacing that income. Rude awakenings await.

I like the $13-$15 analogy. That's what dispatchers make. For the amount of work we do and the responsibility, the yelling from the station pricks for things beyond our control and management's complete lack of knowledge of what actually goes on in the office, it's a non-livable, no-way-to-get-ahead-ever wage but it's just a POS regional airline job anyway. So who cares?

For me, there's always FedEx and the Hub. It's only one year of throwing boxes part time at night along with that full time day job at Amateur Airways before I can bid on that exclusive FDX GOC job.

Fatigue. You guys all know what that is, right?

 

[D'Angelo]

I like the $13-$15 analogy. That's what dispatchers make. For the amount of work we do and the responsibility, the yelling from the station pricks for things beyond our control and management's complete lack of knowledge of what actually goes on in the office, it's a non-livable, no-way-to-get-ahead-ever wage but it's just a POS regional airline job anyway. So who cares?

For me, there's always FedEx and the Hub. It's only one year of throwing boxes part time at night along with that full time day job at Amateur Airways before I can bid on that exclusive FDX GOC job.

Fatigue. You guys all know what that is, right?

The amount of work we do? Please our duties are quite simple. Sign some paperwork, wait for passengers to be loaded, wait for our release, wait for bags, wait for late aircraft, wait during airport appriciation sits. Waiting is the name of our game. The majority of this job is just sitting there and waiting for other people to do something. The other part is throwing on the autopilot and letting it drive us most of the way. Heavy work load? Puhlease. If someone is yelling about something out of my control i just let it roll off my back. You cant let the job stress you out.

 

[OMG7778]

You idiot you are not paid for the times that every thing goes right. You are paid for when the SH!T hits the fan and things go very wrong and you do everything in your power to prevent becoming the lead story on cnn for three days. I dont even know why I am responding to you.

 

[suupah]

The amount of work we do? Please our duties are quite simple.....

Yes but like it or not, YOU have a skill that many don't have and if YOU have a bad day, or make a bad decision....people die. No one said that flying is rocket science, but it has heavy consequences. Therefore it is in eveyones best interest that pilots have notsostressful lives and are well rested. That includes having a wage that doesn't have you sweating bullets everymonth when its bill time.

I mean look at the knowledge you apply evey single day when you fly that you take for granted. Next time you look at that long a$$ dispatch release think about how many things you are thinking about as you look it over. How many safety decisions you made before anyone even sets foot on the plane. The average person doesn't even know the correlation of airspeed, bank angle and stalling. I mean that is so basic, but we take it for granted cuz we do it everyday and it has become second nature.

point is, you are a skilled professional with a serious job.

 

[XJohXJ]

* deleted, again *

 

[D'Angelo]

You idiot you are not paid for the times that every thing goes right. You are paid for when the SH!T hits the fan and things go very wrong and you do everything in your power to prevent becoming the lead story on cnn for three days. I dont even know why I am responding to you.

The sh!t does not hit the fan often. Planes are much safer now a days. Besides in an emergency you use ALL available resources meaning inside and outside the cockput. Take my advice and have a martini like brian is. You really need to relax my friend

 

[Clyde]

Let me clarify the question for you. I was asking for opinions of what a livable wage was for a pilot.

I guess that would really depend on where you live.

My $0.02;

Do these things in this order:

1: Pay for food, shelter, clothing, and the lights.
2: Can you pay down balances that are owed? i.e., student loans, etc.
3: Can you save? i.e., retirement and a little into savings as well.

If you can do the above 3, then you probably have a livable wage. If not, try to increase the wage or decrease the expenses.

I know I'm stretching the subject a little bit here, but one should focus on how they manage their money as well as how much they will earn. To an extent, it's not how much you make, it's what you do with the money you make.

 

[405]

Thank you Clyde. That is the answer I was looking for.

 

[CaptainMark]

The sh!t does not hit the fan often. Planes are much safer now a days. Besides in an emergency you use ALL available resources meaning inside and outside the cockput. Take my advice and have a martini like brian is. You really need to relax my friend

nice english...you don't have a clue! it's amazing the guys that slip through the cracks....livable wage=$220,000 or more...

 

[D'Angelo]

nice english...you don't have a clue! it's amazing the guys that slip through the cracks....livable wage=$220,000 or more...

liveable wage $220,000 my A$$. Maybe so you can go blow all that money on boats cars and yachts then scream how you have no retirement later cause you relied too much on your pension. I'm sure you want that 220k while working 10 days a month. Sorry you have to WORK for your money now a days. Exactly how many families are getting by just fine that don't have a COMBINED income of $220,000. Yea thats what I thought just about all of america.

 

[CaptainMark]

no... i buy properties in FLA...i would rent you one but you can't afford it and i don't have room for all 10 of your kids...guys like u keep bringing down pilot wages... and who wants to just get by...well 220 does me just fine!

 

[D'Angelo]

no... i buy properties in FLA...i would rent you one but you can't afford it and i don't have room for all 10 of your kids...guys like u keep bringing down pilot wages... and who wants to just get by...well 220 does me just fine!

Ha and you think you actually deserve a raise? I think not. Have fun actually trying to strike on the basis your underpaid.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

One must come to a pilot message board to feel uber-rich by making 220K/yr.