Livable wage

[nonstop]

Hello nonstop genius,

Let me clarify the question for you. I was asking for opinions of what a livable wage was for a pilot. I wasn't asking for a godd*mn lesson on economics or the phone number for your financial planner. Don't read too much into it. Keep it simple.

flamebaiter

You think you just asked a simple question? An umbrella answer to cover all professional pilots? One number to sum it all up for ya?

Ok, here it is: $0, with wealthy parents.

Good luck in your pursuits.

 

[bvt1151]

Actually, Catbert makes a great point that it seems you didn't pick up on. "Livable Wage" has everything to do with where you live, and nothing to do with what you do. The livable wage for a WalMart employee is exactly the same as it is for a pilot living in the same area. We tend to exaggerate and complain that we aren't being paid "livable wages" when all it means is that we might have to consider getting rid of the 5 mpg SUV for a 10 mpg hybrid SUV.

I cringe every time I hear a pilot complain about not being paid livable wages. No wonder its difficult to gain the sympathy of those who actually do make it on less than we do.

 

[405]

You think you just asked a simple question? An umbrella answer to cover all professional pilots? One number to sum it all up for ya?

Ok, here it is: $0, with wealthy parents.

Good luck in your pursuits.

Thanks Grandpaw.

 

[flyer172r]

The only true livable wage: (in your best Dr. Evil impression) one hundred billion dollars.

In all seriousness, my idea of "livable" would be to own a nice home in a town I like, put my kid through college, and be able to take my wife out to a fancy dinner once in a while. What that number is, couldn't tell you.

 

[nonstop]

Actually, Catbert makes a great point that it seems you didn't pick up on. "Livable Wage" has everything to do with where you live, and nothing to do with what you do. The livable wage for a WalMart employee is exactly the same as it is for a pilot living in the same area. We tend to exaggerate and complain that we aren't being paid "livable wages" when all it means is that we might have to consider getting rid of the 5 mpg SUV for a 10 mpg hybrid SUV.

I cringe every time I hear a pilot complain about not being paid livable wages. No wonder its difficult to gain the sympathy of those who actually do make it on less than we do.

So you're comparing a Wal-Mart employee with an airline pilot? Like the costs of attaining the position are equal?

Someone who starts their profession out of high school at 18 should make the same as someone that incurs a debt until they are 22, and you consider that an even comparision?

Why not just equate a Wal-Mart employee to a doctor, lawyer or engineer?

Now we're off topic. To give the simplistic original poster an ounce of credit he simply asked what a livable wage is. Make up your own figure... but acknowledge that if a position requires a cost to attain (in the form of formal education and lost wages pursuing that education) it requires a higher wage to break even.

Christ guys, education is not a charity. It's that simple. It's a debt one incurs to forego a greater income. Just for the employee to break EVEN that income must be greater than one who doesn't pursue any form of education.

In todays environment with the disappearance of social security and pensions one must ABSOLUTELY address retirement savings, and retirement savings are TOTALLY dependant at the years the savings are allowed to compound.

So to say a Wal-Mart greeter and airline pilot deserve the same wage would suggest the Wal-Mart greeter deserves a higher net worth for taking no risks which is totally contradictory to capitalism.

 

[bvt1151]

So you're comparing a Wal-Mart employee with an airline pilot? Like the costs of attaining the position are equal?

The question was "what does livable wage mean?" not "What is a fair wage?"

We need to be careful the words we use when we complain about our pay.

 

[nonstop]

The question was "what does livable wage mean?" not "What is a fair wage?"

We need to be careful the words we use when we complain about our pay.

You're right. I misspoke, but my argument remains the same.

Here it is: A "livable wage" for an airline pilot is higher than a "livable wage" for say a "post office employee."

Why? Lost income and savings (most likely incurring debt) in the pursuit of a career vs a career which costs less (or nothing) to attain.

A flawed question to begin with, but an idea we should all ponder (assuming most reading this forum are pilots)... since most likely in todays environment we'll never recover from the lost savings.

 

[DoinTime]

So to say a Wal-Mart greeter and airline pilot deserve the same wage would suggest the Wal-Mart greeter deserves a higher net worth for taking no risks which is totally contradictory to capitalism.

Once again we are not talking about what someone deserves. We are talking about what a "livable wage" is.

I make double the combined income of both of my parents and they managed to own their home, raise three children, and save for retirement. Surely my wages classify as "livable." Do I think I'm worth more....sure I do.

 

[Catbert]

Look nonstop. No one here is arguing with your ideas, just the semantics.

The original poster asked what a living wage is. It's a known, defined amount.

It has nothing to do with airline pilots or construction workers, only location and daily living expenses. Visit the Wikipedia link I posted above for a good definition. It's not a made-up phrase. Living wage is what it takes to survive in your neck of the woods.

What you're talking about is how much money it takes to:
a) pay off the money we spent to get into this profession
b) compensate us for the skill we demonstrate and responsibility we exercise daily
c) pay our daily expenses
d) pay for our retirement

These are very real concerns. Just not the definition of livable wage.

What you're talking about is more like the poster above said: a fair (or reasonable) wage.

 

[nonstop]

Once again we are not talking about what someone deserves. We are talking about what a "livable wage" is.

I make double the combined income of both of my parents and they managed to own their home, raise three children, and save for retirement. Surely my wages classify as "livable." Do I think I'm worth more....sure I do.

Once again: I misspoke. A livable wage (whatever you choose to define that as: $20,000 $50,000 $100,000 $1,000,000) needs to be greater for an employee who had to invest their own money and time to attain their job, than an employee who required zero time and investment for that same employee to realize the same net income.

Christ what is this, the regional management forums? One wrong word and you guys are on it like sharks.