Limitations on the Use of Automation at Your Company

[Mud Eagle]

You need to watch AA's "Children of the Magenta" because I would bet half of you couldn't fly an ILS in a C172 with steam gauges any more.

Is there a digital copy of "Automation Dependency" floating around the internet anywhere?

Google has failed to yield anything under "Automation Dependency", "Warren Vanderberg", or "Children of the Magenta".

 

[wmuflyguy]

I think I effectively killed this thread. I am so proud of myself!

By trying to prove a experiment that has no basis in reality (you can never get a treadmill to keep the a/c stationary, wheels don't accelerate the plane). Congrats, first rounds on me.

 

[sayrejm]

By trying to prove a experiment that has no basis in reality (you can never get a treadmill to keep the a/c stationary, wheels don't accelerate the plane). Congrats, first rounds on me.

That assumes that the bearings in wheels are 100% frictionless (ie: put the plane on a jack and then give the wheel a spin and they never stop spinning after that. remember: an object in motion stays in motion....)

They will soon stop spinning because of friction in the wheel assembly. What I do not know without a controlled experiment to find out is how that force varies with the angular velocity of the wheels.

In other words: How fast do the wheels have to spin to create a force equal to the force of the propeller, and is this angular velocity of the wheels realistically obtainable.

 

[glasspilot]

You will hit max tire speed WAY before you get anywhere close to enough friction to hold the plane still (slack the rope in your experiment).

Once the tire flies apart the friction goes way up so it wouldn't be too hard to prove the plane won't fly as double tire speed at rotation for every plane over 10,000 lbs I've flown would be well over the limit. Most tires max out at 150 to 180 kts. If rotation is 120 then double is 240 and the tires blow.

With that said, that's not really the point. The plane on a conveyor myth is to point out that the conveyor does not hold the plane still. Most people lose sight of the fact that the prop pulls on the air to move the plane and the tire/conveyor contact is meaningless.

Take tires and axles out of it and use skies on a moving sheet of ice and you see my point.

 

[sayrejm]

hey that's a good example...

 

[IBNAV8R]

Our SOP specifically prohibits the use of treadmills for takeoff. I hear they are working on a correction table however.

 

[CX880]

What's the point of having treadmills for takeoff when you can't land the airplane back on them? You would overshoot. What they could do is have touch down zones that are treadmills. Right when the airplane touches down they could spin really fast and arrest the forward movement of the plane.

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh great, this again.