Likelihood of terrorists flying for airlines

[Cokie907]

It is an absolutely believable scenario and one that I'm sure many flight crews have discussed in the years since 9/11. Before then, we suffered from a lack of imagination but not anymore. The recent release of "Flight 93" on A&E has reignited discussions in the crew room about what it would like to be hijacked but the absolute worst case scenario would be a hijacker ALREADY in the cockpit.

Someone said it would be a long, arduous task to attain flight ratings and the hours necessary to carry off this kind of attack. THIS IS BUNK! My FO last month began flying only 2 years ago and came straight to the airline through Gulfstream Academy. Doesn't sound like an arduous career track to me provided that the money is there.

This is one of the reasons why we must continue on in the War on Terror as it has been mapped out by the Bush administration after 9/11. Bush has explained time and time again that we cannot competely guard this country against EVERY CONCEIVABLE ATTACK from radical elements of Islam. We must take the fight to them and disrupt/destroy their networks, shut down their funding and work to spread FREEDOM around the globe because free societies do not sponsor terrorists, plain and simple.

P.S.- If you have not seen "Flight 93" on A&E yet, you need to. It will really make you stop and think for a bit about what went on in that plane.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

This is by far the best thing I have read today! thanks for the good laugh man!

I can see it now....

4:30 AM <<RING...RING>>

(Abdul wakes from his slumber...)

Abdul: "Hello? Is this scheduling? You know you guys aren't supposed to call during rest!"

Muhammed: "Abdul. This is Muhammed. It is time my brother."

Abdul: "Time? Time for what? Did I miss the van?"

Muhammed: "It is time for you to complete your mission! 50 virgins await you!"

Abdul: "Really? Wow. Hey, listen. I just got off of reserve. I'm finally holding a pretty good line with weekends off. How about we wait until after the holidays?"

Muhammed: "What? No! You must act now. The entire plan depends on you!"

Abdul: "Now? No. I picked up a Las Vegas 3-day and I wanted to bring this slutty flight-attendant I met. You know, a little gambling, a little steak. I'll be a martar some other time."

Muhammed: "Abdul! Allah would be displeased! The Jihad it depends on you!"

Abdul: "(yawn) Listen, I have a 7:00am show this morning. Starting a 4-day. The bids come out next week, I might be able to hold 737 Captain out of Phoenix. Why dont you give me a call next summer and we'll see how things look?"

<click>

 

[Flyer1015]

Originally Posted by BenderGonzales
I can see it now....

4:30 AM <<RING...RING>>

(Abdul wakes from his slumber...)

Abdul: "Hello? Is this scheduling? You know you guys aren't supposed to call during rest!"

Muhammed: "Abdul. This is Muhammed. It is time my brother."

Abdul: "Time? Time for what? Did I miss the van?"

Muhammed: "It is time for you to complete your mission! 50 virgins await you!"

Abdul: "Really? Wow. Hey, listen. I just got off of reserve. I'm finally holding a pretty good line with weekends off. How about we wait until after the holidays?"

Muhammed: "What? No! You must act now. The entire plan depends on you!"

Abdul: "Now? No. I picked up a Las Vegas 3-day and I wanted to bring this slutty flight-attendant I met. You know, a little gambling, a little steak. I'll be a martar some other time."

Muhammed: "Abdul! Allah would be displeased! The Jihad it depends on you!"

Abdul: "(yawn) Listen, I have a 7:00am show this morning. Starting a 4-day. The bids come out next week, I might be able to hold 737 Captain out of Phoenix. Why dont you give me a call next summer and we'll see how things look?"

<click>

The real question is, was that Floyd from crew scheduling who called Muhammed ? :laugh:

 

[81Horse]

The real question is, was that Floyd from crew scheduling who called Muhammed ?

Hah! That's the first thing that came to my mind, too.

 

[FlyingToIST]

Despite of all the name calling, Mohammed , Abdul jokes, despite of the president saying "we gonna smoke 'em"; we are still very vulnerable.
I have been pushing for the screening of passangers outside of the terminal since 9/11. But what do i know i am muslim, i am a foreigner, i don't know jack crap..

I recall the terrorists attacks of Orly, Fiumicino, Istanbul and Ankara.. We take the lighters off the pockets, but we still don't screen the luggages inside of the terminal. At my hometown airport , KSEA, terrorists can show up with 5 luggages at 5 different locations of the terminal full of C4s..

But, again, TSA is it's first enemy.. People don't know about these things because we are busy creating agencies that don't do jack crap.. but yeah, we also have $130 per foreigner "feel good measure" for training too.

 

[FN FAL]

Despite of all the name calling, Mohammed , Abdul jokes, despite of the president saying "we gonna smoke 'em"; we are still very vulnerable.

How come nobody is jumping on the "polygraph a pilot" idea?

If there's some worry that pilots could be terrorists, just waiting to jump out the cake like an exotic dancer at a bachelor party, why don't we just polygraph all commercial pilot applicants from 5 years before 9/11 and on up to tomorrow? But we should definitely work on the commercial pilots that only wanted to learn how to steer the plane. Those that really concentrated on take offs and landings should be granted amnesty.

 

[Flyer1015]

But we should definitely work on the commercial pilots that only wanted to learn how to steer the plane. Those that really concentrated on take offs and landings should be granted amnesty.

Now, now, don't be silly .

If that plan was implemented, terrorists wouldn't be stupid: they would all do the "smart" thing, and express great interest in takeoffs and landings (simply so they can blend in).

 

[Resocha]

It is an absolutely believable scenario and one that I'm sure many flight crews have discussed in the years since 9/11.

Someone said it would be a long, arduous task to attain flight ratings and the hours necessary to carry off this kind of attack. THIS IS BUNK!

We must take the fight to them and disrupt/destroy their networks, shut down their funding and work to spread FREEDOM around the globe because free societies do not sponsor terrorists, plain and simple.

I entirely agree that it is a conceivable scenario. To deny it is naive. If they'll train for 3 years in the desert to learn how to garotte a man, then they'll suffer through 18 months at FSI.

However, bombing the world into submission to enforce our lifestyle is not the answer. Free societies don't sponsor terrorists? What about the Irish Republican Army or Timothy McVeigh? You don't need state support to have a violent political agenda.

 

[FN FAL]

Oh, then you must have never heard of the Irish Republican Army or Timothy McVeigh. You don't need state support to have a violent political agenda.

Hey, if you're going to lump the IRA with Timothy McVeigh, you might as well lump SWAPO and Mandella in there too.

 

[Resocha]

Hey, if you're going to lump the IRA with Timothy McVeigh, you might as well lump SWAPO and Mandella in there too.

The point being that terrorists exist in free societies, as well as closed societies.

 

[Cokie907]

Tell us Resocha, what is the current status of the IRA and what did the free society of the Republic of Ireland do to sustain them?

As far as using Timothy McVeigh to counter my point, you have only made yourself look foolish. All societies, both free and tyrannical have whackos in their midst and there is nothing you can do about them except try to weed them out when they are young and get them help. History is littered with whackjobs who flew off the handle and did heinous things, this is not to say that the FREE SOCIETY IN WHICH THEY LIVED SPONSORED THEIR ACTIONS.

Do you get the difference now or do I have to go in more vivid detail?

 

[Resocha]

Tell us Resocha, what is the current status of the IRA and what did the free society of the Republic of Ireland do to sustain them?

As far as using Timothy McVeigh to counter my point, you have only made yourself look foolish. All societies, both free and tyrannical have whackos in their midst and there is nothing you can do about them except try to weed them out when they are young and get them help. History is littered with whackjobs who flew off the handle and did heinous things, this is not to say that the FREE SOCIETY IN WHICH THEY LIVED SPONSORED THEIR ACTIONS.

Do you get the difference now or do I have to go in more vivid detail?

You arrogance is entertaining. You must be quite an expert.

It may be an issue of semantics or interpretation, and although the government may not have given an overt thumbs-up, the IRA was still supported by certain segments of the FREE society. And you're right, fortunately, the IRA's violent action has presently conceded, but notice that it didn't take the RAF to level all of Northern Ireland to make that happen.

In other words, terrorists existed for over 30 years in a free society, BECAUSE of their local support, without the need of state support. But most importlantly, it didn't take bombs to dislodge the terrorists, as is your solution.

I'm done, but if you just can't help yourself, fire away.

 

[typhoonpilot]

This is one of the reasons why we must continue on in the War on Terror as it has been mapped out by the Bush administration after 9/11. Bush has explained time and time again that we cannot competely guard this country against EVERY CONCEIVABLE ATTACK from radical elements of Islam. We must take the fight to them and disrupt/destroy their networks, shut down their funding and work to spread FREEDOM around the globe because free societies do not sponsor terrorists, plain and simple.

I can't believe people have bought that argument. Nobody can SPREAD freedom, it must come from within or it will never last.

The United States government supported dictators when it suited their goals and still do today.

What the United States needs to do is to have a policy to SUPPORT freedom, especially over business interests. Case in point, Taiwan. Taiwan is a free and democratic country. Will the United States support them if mainland China attacks ? Doubtful, because business comes first. It is this kind of hypocrisy that is dooming the USA.

I whole heartedly support the idea of freedom and democracy. I support the vision of our country's founding fathers to set up a government structure that was/is difficult to dismantle by individuals bent on personal power trips and crusades. George Bush and the neocons destroyed the principle's of America when Iraq was invaded and now we will pay the price for generations to come.

Typhoonpilot

 

[FN FAL]

It may be an issue of semantics or interpretation, and although the government may not have given an overt thumbs-up, the IRA was still supported by certain segments of the FREE society. And you're right, fortunately, the IRA's violent action has presently conceded, but notice that it didn't take the RAF to level all of Northern Ireland to make that happen.

In other words, terrorists existed for over 30 years in a free society, BECAUSE of their local support...

That's what they would have called the colonists, had they placed second in the US Independence War Games.

How many IRA founders became exiled here to the US to become college students, military men, Governors, Lawyers, laypersons, Americans?

 

[airbrush]

Obviously the premise of this thread is a real possibility in the post-9/11 world in which we all now live. I think a likely scenario, rather than sending future martyrs through training like for 9/11, might be to recruit already established airline employees.
This crossed my mind afew years ago. We had a pilot at my old airline who was of Middle Eastern origin; he went back to his home country every few months or so to visit family. I knew him fairly well and worked with often, and he was a great guy, happily married with a couple of kids. No big deal, especially through the 80's & 90's.
After he'd been there about 12 years and approaching his 40s, he suddenly went from being your average needs-to-lose-a-few-pounds kind of guy to being in fantastic physical condition. Many people do this in response to the approach of mid-life, and in his case that seems to be the end of it. But after 9/11, I couldn't help but wonder about someone like that who, upon approaching mid-life, starts the "why am I here?" self-analysis. Maybe he's feeling a sense of disillusionment or lack of life purpose. He feels a pull to get in touch with his roots, his heritage, and maybe starts attending a mosque like he did when he was a kid.
Once his profession becomes known to others, there may be a few characters who start working on him, telling him that Allah has placed him in this position for a very special purpose, and that his draw back to Islam at this time in his life is no coincidence. Over time they may convince him of his true mission in life. By now he is established at the airline, is well known to everyone and is far above any suspicion. And he has all the credentials to glide directly into the left seat and wait for his date with destiny.
Fortunately, in the case of my former co-worker, this was not the case; anyone who may recognize him, please know that I am not attempting to slander or accuse this individual. But the London subway/bus bombers were British-born; their neighbors were "stunned" because they seemed so "normal" and well-adjusted. So I think it is well within the realm of possibility. It's just sad that we have to consider such scenarios these days.