Likelihood of death in General Aviation

[skyaddict]

Yeah good point about GA not being as safe as driving. I think airline flying is something like 100x safer than pure GA (not frac/corporate) or so, i.e well ahead of automobiles, but automobiles are still *quite a bit* safer than GA. Now, though the case can be overblown (we have a lot more control over driving risks than is sometimes made in this comparison), in driving we are highly vulnerable to complete morons who pass us or intesrect our route at intersections, dozens, perhaps hundreds of times per car trip. In flying, this close proximity to a moron might happen from time to time in a traffic pattern but otherwise we can go trip after trip without any exposure to this routine automobile risk.

If one eliminates pretty blatant dangerous activities in airplanes such as low-level maneuvering other than takeoff and landing, scud running or VFR into IMC, yada yada, one eliminates something on the order of 80% plus of fatal accidents, I think. (I'm bandying the stats loosely but it's close enough). That elimination probably gets GA flying on an even par with automobile driving- even assuming one is a safety minded driver.

But being ATP's and pro-pilots means nothing (in terms of risk stats) once we leave the tight bounds of 121 type flying, so once we step into a GA cockpit, it's up to us to create and follow our own mental FOM/SOPs for GA, so to speak.

 

[firstthird]

Not to mention things like buying an electrical backup artificial horizon if all your plane has is a vacuum driven one.

There are things you can do to lower your risk to the big killers, many of which you've already done by being an ATP.

I'd talk to some other airline guys that are at your local airport and see how they handle the transition from 121 flying with all of its backups and safeguards (MELs, dispatch, etc) and part 91 flying with the extra rope it allows (0/0 takeoffs for one). Maybe they use 500/1 as a minimum instead of 200/.5 since they are single pilot, etc.

also, if you are married/kids, you might want to check into some life insurance and see what/if any effect GA flying will have on your ability to purchase it at a good price. If you are single, not so much a player.

I will say that it seems like many more 121 pilots die flying 91 for fun than do during their day job, despite the vastly lower amount of flight time/miles. I'd think that most big airlines lose a pilot or two every couple of years to a GA crash while most American airlines rarely have the fatal accidents (knock on wood). We lost 2 pilots to a mid-air during a photo run 6 months or so ago (retired but still part of the family).

 

[avbug]

If one eliminates pretty blatant dangerous activities in airplanes such as low-level maneuvering other than takeoff and landing,...

As one who has been employed to engage in low level maneuvering in general aviation airplanes since I was a teenager, you can stop right there and re-examine that comment made in ignorance.

 

[skyaddict]

Fair enough, my statement was poorly written-- low level maneuvering is not dangerous done right and with proper training, but it has a very high accident rate by those not so qualified (as highlighted in an AOPA study).

 

[Goose Egg]

For the record, I hope to be involved in GA for the rest of my life (ASES, CFI-H, and FAI badges, here I come!!). I've got nothing against flying ASELs in Day/VFR. As I stated in another thread, however, flying ASELs in low IMC is something that makes me a little uneasy and I hope it's something that I don't have to do for too much longer. I don't have the same consternation for night VFR in an ASEL, but even that is a risk that I don't expose myself to on a regular basis.

In any case, I don't think GA is inherently dangerous, however, it requires discipline and solid risk management and decision making skills. (Which is why it may be regarded as such a "daredevil" activity by the general public; because it requires discipline, risk management, and decision making skills that they don't have and don't know how to get! But I digress...) Be careful, be safe, don't take stupid risks, always leave yourself an "out," and you should be fine.

-Goose

 

[lowery21]

"I will say that it seems like many more 121 pilots die flying 91 for fun than do during their day job, despite the vastly lower amount of flight time/miles. I'd think that most big airlines lose a pilot or two every couple of years to a GA crash while most American airlines rarely have the fatal accidents (knock on wood). We lost 2 pilots to a mid-air during a photo run 6 months or so ago (retired but still part of the family)."

Yeah, I think day to day 121 ops degrade GA flying ability...while maybe exaggerating in your mind the ability to conduct the flight. Dangerous combo. You have a checklist for everything, a policy for everything, and someone with you in 121. There was an absurdly high time capt a few years ago that t-boned someone on a crossing runway in his king air. Can't remember the exact specifics of it, but I seem to recall there were problems with proper frequencies, communication(obviously) et al. Will you be as apt flying GA on the weekends on a clear and a million day to check for notams and weather? What is the freq again for the FSS here? Did those golf clubs screw up my cg? Little stuff that can be taken for granted when you are handed a packet of required information everyday in the same format. Plus you are a big time professional pilot by God! Little stuff that can turn you into a memory.

Now of course present company excluded. None of us here have ever made a mistake or oversight.

Just something to think about. Fly safe guys and gals.

..for the record I love GA and hope to be able to continue flying in that realm as well.

 

[RightPedal]

I am a Regional Airline Pilot with a civilian background. I flew plenty of single engine and twin engine GA Aircraft over the years and lately have wanted to get back into flying single engine GA aircraft as a hobby.

My question is: What is the likelihood of dying in a single engine piston airplane (lets say a Cessna 172) if you pursue the hobby for an entire lifetime? Lets say you start flying GA Aircraft again at 27 yrs old (my current age) and want to fly until age 65. If I fly 1-2 times a week for about 10 hours per month over the next 38 years is there a low, medium, or high chance of eventually getting into a fatal accident?

Keep in mind that I am an ATP and have over 3500 hours of flight time currently. Also, I would be flying exclusively in VFR conditions.

Just wanted to hear some thoughts from seasoned GA pilots who have been flying for 10+ years.

I fly aircraft owned by some friends as often as I can. It may be a J3 Cub, an 8E Luscombe, a Champ, an L19 Bird Dog or the most desirable is a 450 hp Stearman. All except the Stearman have no electrical system and must be hand propped.
The only thing I worry about is that which is standing on our strip, and that's water and or cow's. Neither have ever stopped me from enjoying what I love to do. The only stress I have about it is they'll all be sold someday. Other than that, as long as I can get my fat'az up in them, I'll continue to gamble with those that got me this far to begin with.
Life is good, go, have fun while you can.

 

[erj-145mech]

The Bird Dog doesn't have an electrical system? With a pressure carburetor, without an electical driven fuel pump, the engine will die if the engine driven fuel pump craps out. The O-470-11/15 that is installed has a Stromberg PS-5 pressure carb.

 

[JediNein]

I've been flying GA for 12+ years, from Ercoupes to Citations. It's as safe as you want it to be.

 

[RightPedal]

The Bird Dog doesn't have an electrical system? With a pressure carburetor, without an electical driven fuel pump, the engine will die if the engine driven fuel pump craps out. The O-470-11/15 that is installed has a Stromberg PS-5 pressure carb.

You're right, my bad, the Dog does have an electrical system. Good airplane, too.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I thought VFR bugsmashing was supposed to increase one's life span via lower blood pressure, happier outlook on life, hanging out with good friends, enjoying the view, etc?

See quote below.

 

[avbug]

I thought VFR bugsmashing was supposed to increase one's life span via lower blood pressure, happier outlook on life, hanging out with good friends, enjoying the view, etc?

I don't know if it's supposed to, but it certainly ought to.

At a minimum, flying should remind you that you're still alive, and why.

 

[Goose Egg]

I thought VFR bugsmashing was supposed to increase one's life span via lower blood pressure, happier outlook on life, hanging out with good friends, enjoying the view, etc?

Goal in life (or at least one of them): Fly a C-185 on skis. I'm changing my avatar to reflect my dedication to this goal.

At a minimum, flying should remind you that you're still alive, and why.

AAAAAAAAMEN!!!

-Goose

 

[g4800xp]

I think the odd's of NW Pilot, the aircraft ferry pilot here's early departure from the living is far greater than mine.