lifestyle

[Computer Geek]

2. I thought 121 schedules were made well in advance and there is almost no waiting by the phone. My impression of 91 is that schedules aren't known until the last minute. Is that true, or is that more like a 135 carrier?

This maybe true as you gain some seniority, but at my former employer. They would call me more on my days off than when I was actually on reserve. The reason being if you are off the you are considered rested, if your on reserve then they have to follow the contract or FAA's. It got to the point were I turned my phones of when I went to bed and let the voicemail talk to them.


CG

 

[Matterhorn]

I’m with you Jimbodawg, I want to join the ranks of all these pilots who seem to love what they’re doing.
For me the QOL seems better than at the airlines. I’ve got a bunch of friends at Skywest and other regionals and they all tell me I’m better suited for a corporate gig. I’m making more $$$ now than most second year FOs as a chief CFI at a great school but am really feeling the need to move on to higher, faster, farther. I just keep plugging along checking on opportunities as they come (and trying to generate opportunities that haven’t appeared yet.)
Anybody with any advice other than the usual “fly what you can when you can” would be appreciated.

 

[NotFurloughed]

Love the Corporate Life...

I must say that I would rather be flying corporate than flying at all...granted this opinion has resulted from my past experience and is not to be take as a generality...

(oh, by the way AIG is NOT hiring right now...)

I lived with the "pager" and didn't mind it because I was low guy on the totem pole....everybody pays their dues...Eventually that turned into fewer on-call days, which turned into a good schedule, which turned into a Captain job...which turned into a career...

Pay is good, schedule is good...and most importantly quality of life is good (i.e. benefits, schedule, culture, equipment, family time, etc.)

I've done the flight department management stuff, the pilot stuff, the "other" stuff and love it all...as long as it's for a good corporation...

I wont bash the guys who are making tons of money in the majors, or the guys that are being hired at 500TT into a GV (jealous???...oh, i'm NOT one of 'em)...that's the nature of this industry...Corporate flying is 85% who you know and 15% who you haven't pissed off...good flight departments can make a great pilot out of a "greenie"...and that's what some do...

Heck...I know GIV guys making 300+, and that's no sh*%!!, they don't advertise for pilots, nor do they publish in the NBAA survey...but the jobs are out there....

Lovin' it every day!!

 

[DA900B]

I had flown corporate for 12 years before being hired by my airline. My background includes everything from a small charter operator to a Fortune 100 corporation flying as a G-IV captain. I have been to the Great Wall, Germany, and pretty much everywhere else on this planet. I have spent many nights away from home in places that require me to have vaccinations against yellow fever, typhiod and malaria. Those on this board who fly the heavy corporate equipment know about the "Little Yellow Card".

As Falcon Capt said, lifestyle can vary by company. I found my life was most challenging with the Fortune 100 company flying the large aircraft. Long durations away from home on a regular basis and a constant change in schedule. Although the amount of changes will vary from one company to another, invariably it will happen. Corporations own aircraft primarily for point to point convenience and more importantly to meet there schedule not yours. It is very difficult and costly to staff a flight department sufficiently to meet all changes.

There are a few good corporate jobs out there but that could change at any time. My wife works for a Fortune 500 company that was close to being one of the best. The CEO recently retired and a new one took his place resulting in a whole new lifestyle. She is close to resigning. Something to consider when one person can change everything.

As far as stabilty this is very hard to quantify. Yes, being furloughed at my airline during my career is a real possibility. However, my corporate career has led me to 4 short notice shutdowns due to aircraft being sold and 2 resignations due to lifestyle issues. 6 companies in 12 years.

As far as a schedule goes make sure you can differentiate between days off and days not flying. Having x amount of days off in a month by definition will change depending on how you look at it. To me days spent on ready standby in any capacity does not qualify as a day off.

Jimbodawg, looking at your flight time and aircraft flown this may indicate that you are fairly young and just beginning your aviation career. I can remember when I was starting out. I would have given my left leg to sit right seat in any jet. I'm older now and realize what is most important to me, QOL. I absolutly love to fly and love where I am working. Be careful about drawing conclusions based on differences between a corporate and regional airline career. Maybe you will find that good corporate job and have a great career, but look at everything carefully on the day when you must make that important decision.

Take Care...

 

[KrisFlaugher]

Airline vs Corporate

I don't agree with what falconpilot said regarding airline pilots finishing out on top. I currently am just a right seat guy down in West Palm Beach, FL on a Falcon 200, but my pay is almost double than 12 of my buddies that have been doing the airline puddle jump shuffle from San Juan for American or Newark for Continental. Granted I know that there pay will increase over time, but take for example one of my buddies has been with Cont. Exp for 5 years and is just now taking home 2gs a month, and the kicker is he's 32! So, I sit back and say "OK, he will definetly be making 6 figures at some point, but WHEN!", and in that time from the time i'm 21 starting at $35 a year until i'm 32 who is ahead of who? Sure, you can say corporate is unstable which is true, but on the other hand who in the airlines has been laid off in the past 5 years? Somebody, please stand up!! Because, you know it's true that a whole hell of alot of guys have been laid off! And, what have they gotten from that lovely airline experience???? No type in an airplane, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty slow plane, in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty place, waiting on a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty schedule, to go stay in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty hotel all to say " One of these days..........I'll be making 200gs a year! " Ahhhhhhh......Life IS GOOD!!!

 

[banned username 2]

I don't agree with what falconpilot said regarding airline pilots finishing out on top. I currently am just a right seat guy down in West Palm Beach, FL on a Falcon 200, but my pay is almost double than 12 of my buddies that have been doing the airline puddle jump shuffle from San Juan for American or Newark for Continental. Granted I know that there pay will increase over time, but take for example one of my buddies has been with Cont. Exp for 5 years and is just now taking home 2gs a month, and the kicker is he's 32!

I was talking MAJOR airline pay, not regionals... You are comparing apples to oranges... Regional pay sucks, even Charter beats most regional pay...

 

[bafanguy]

Falcon Capt,


Sounds like you're describing the top of the heap in the corp world ( sounds pretty good to me ). My question would be how much of corp flying world fits your description ? I spent 30+ years at Delta and I could give the kid a glowing description of airline flying that would equal or exceed your good fortune, but I'd hardly be delivering an accurate picture of EVERY airline job. I hope the kid understands the variability of either type flying. I could relate a story or two from my corp friends that would be polar opposite of what you describe and from pretty big companies.

And...for Gulfstream 200: If memory serves me correctly, I recall your comment..."...push the pax out of the way to get off..." when referring to airline pilot behavior from one of your previous posts. All I can say is your are DEAD WRONG. In fact my company's Ops Manual contained a statement that we were to stand in the door saying goodbye to the pax...and in my 30 years, that's what we did. Frankly, I see nothing more in your comment than an anti-airline pilot bias and can't imagine why you would harbor such an attitude. I don't hear airline pilots making snide remarks about corp pilots.

All in all, sounds like some of you folks have it pretty darned good...so did I.

 

[banned username 2]

Sounds like you're describing the top of the heap in the corp world ( sounds pretty good to me ). My question would be how much of corp flying world fits your description ? I spent 30+ years at Delta and I could give the kid a glowing description of airline flying that would equal or exceed your good fortune, but I'd hardly be delivering an accurate picture of EVERY airline job. I hope the kid understands the variability of either type flying. I could relate a story or two from my corp friends that would be polar opposite of what you describe and from pretty big companies.

I would say my job is fairly "middle of the road" as far as large corporate departments go... I know guys with better jobs and I know guys with worse jobs... Mine certainly isn't top of the heap...

 

[bafanguy]

Falcon Capt,


Went back and reread your original long post. If your job is middle of the road, I'd like to hear about a "top of the heap" corp job. The only thing you didn't mention was a formal retirement plan outside 401K; a good retirement plan is critical no matter what you do for a living.

You said you fly 400-450 hrs a year. That sounds better than the 800-850 I did in my last years, but I signed on to fly so no complaint there. And, you undoubtedly go more more interesting places than I did ( you'd have to be...).

It's interesting to see what other people do in flying. I've had contact with Mar, A Squared, and Typhoonpilot and really enjoyed hearing what they had to tell. Those guys have really done some stuff...

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt,


Went back and reread your original long post. If your job is middle of the road, I'd like to hear about a "top of the heap" corp job. The only thing you didn't mention was a formal retirement plan outside 401K; a good retirement plan is critical no matter what you do for a living.

In addition to 401k I have a Company Funded Pension plan... By the time I retire (at 60) it will pay me about 75% of my pre-retirement pay, plus full benefits until I die... This is completely above and beyond my 401k...

If you want to hear about a "top of the heap" corporate job, contact GVFlyer... he has one of those!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

bafanguy,

I truly believe that in your 30 years of airline flying you had respect for passengers.

Sorry, its just not too common anymore. I HAVE been practically pushed out of the way by pilots (and I was in First Class on a "legacy" carrier) leaving the aircraft. I have had downright RUDE F/A's and jumpseaters who gather in the aisles and spend 3 hours complaining about thier F'n contract, the compnay etc,etc,etc..all in full ear of me and other First Class pax..."uh, can I get a water please".....

There was a time when flying the airlines was almost enjoyable and there was respect given to/by flight crews. But Sorry, those days are LOOONG gone at the "legacy" carriers. I can say that I have have gotten 10X better service on a $99 LCC flight than I have gotten on a $2500 "legacy" flights....sad but true - and nowadays, thier stock prices reflect thier service. Just an observation.

I dont blame the crews per say, its more complicated than that of course. I can see how its hard to smile when 60's style management is ruining your personal future....

but, as a paying passenger, I dont care about your woes...save it for the bar at the hotel.


And no, I dont have anti-airline pilot bias, in fact I was an airline pilot for a brief time (couldnt afford it!) and if you have read my posts in the past to "newbies" I always suggested shooting for the very best job in the industry - a very senior airline captain.

 

[bafanguy]

gulfstream 200,


Good to hear back from you. I can't account for what happens aft of the cockpit door, service-wise. I've always thought letting bystanders ( even hotel van drivers ) hear you whine about your job, contract, etc. is VERY poor form. As for the treatment you get from F/A's, legacy vs LCC, enjoy it while you can. It'll be interesting to hear from you a few years down the road when the "bloom is off the rose" with the LCC's and the cute, young things figure out what they've got hold of. Humans are complicated and unpredictable creatures so their behavior is often puzzling. But with the state of the airline industry, I can see where the hard feelings of employees come from; I just can't see inflicting them on the cash customers !!

As for the pilots rushing by you to exit the airplane, we frequently had tight turn times with long distances between gates. It was a way of life in ATL, DFW, CVG, SLC or any hub. This wouldn't be obvious to the pax. So, we could stand there for another 10 minutes and be sociable...and keep the next planeload waiting by not using our limited time appropriately, or we could show a little respect for the next group of pax and get over to the OB gate ASAP. This is the most-likely reason for seeing the pilots leave before YOU.

So, if you can AVOID the legacy carriers and fly AirTran...

 

[Stearmandriver]

and keep the next planeload waiting by not using our limited time appropriately, or we could show a little respect for the next group of pax and get over to the OB gate ASAP. This is the most-likely reason for seeing the pilots leave before YOU.

Or, it's the last leg of a four day, you haven't seen your family in a week 'cause you've been stuck sitting reserve in some godforsaken hub like EWR or IAH, and you've got 15 minutes to make the last commute home.

Frankly, I see nothing more in your comment than an anti-airline pilot bias and can't imagine why you would harbor such an attitude. I don't hear airline pilots making snide remarks about corp pilots.

Joking, right? How many times have you heard airline guys at hubs snipe on the radio about having to follow a business aircraft, at what they consider to be their airline's "domain." I hear it at O'Hare ALL the time.
"American 123, transition to the south side of the pad, get in line behind the Citation."
Moment of silence, then a sigh..."OK, we'll follow the little guy..."

I don't agree with what falconpilot said regarding airline pilots finishing out on top. I currently am just a right seat guy down in West Palm Beach, FL on a Falcon 200, but my pay is almost double than 12 of my buddies that have been doing the airline puddle jump shuffle from San Juan for American or Newark for Continental. Granted I know that there pay will increase over time, but take for example one of my buddies has been with Cont. Exp for 5 years and is just now taking home 2gs a month, and the kicker is he's 32! So, I sit back and say "OK, he will definetly be making 6 figures at some point, but WHEN!", and in that time from the time i'm 21 starting at $35 a year until i'm 32 who is ahead of who? Sure, you can say corporate is unstable which is true, but on the other hand who in the airlines has been laid off in the past 5 years? Somebody, please stand up!! Because, you know it's true that a whole hell of alot of guys have been laid off! And, what have they gotten from that lovely airline experience???? No type in an airplane, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty slow plane, in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty place, waiting on a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty schedule, to go stay in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty hotel all to say " One of these days..........I'll be making 200gs a year! " Ahhhhhhh......Life IS GOOD!!!

This post reflects a lack of understanding about what the "regionals" have become. Now, I fly for CoEx, and you are completely right about our pay. It's deplorable. However, we aren't doing cleveland-toledo in brasilias anymore... we're doing Cleveland-Denver, Houston-Palm Springs, Newark-St. Johns etc. in jets. So, we're in complete agreement about the quality of life issues at the airlines, and that's the reason I'm looking to go corporate, but it's not entirely accurate to say "Sh*tty slow plane, in a sh*tty place, waiting on a sh*tty schedule..." That's what makes the pay so pathetic. We're doing major airline flying, and they still pay us like we're flying freakin Beeches.

Bafanguy is right... the airlines WERE a good career. They still will be, once all the dust settles from this latest hiccup (I'd guess around 10 years from now?). They just don't really fit what I'm looking for anymore. I never got into aviation to get rich (darn good thing, huh?), just to make a decent living, be able to support a family etc. All I'm looking for now is a job in the area we want to live, that pays the bills and gives me enough time at home to enjoy my life and my family. The airlines aren't giving me ANY of that right now. If/when I find a corp. place that does, I'm outta here... and I'll be the most loyal employee that corporation ever had!

Joe

 

[bafanguy]

stearmandriver,


I've got to disagree a bit with your take on things. With DAL in ATL, a lot of the pilots commute but I can't recall anyone "...pushing the pax out of the way to get off..." to make a commute home. I didn't commute farther than Stone Mountain, GA, but I can't remember any F/O's mistreating pax in the interest of making a commute home; that would've rubbed ME the wrong way and I'd have put a stop to it.

As for "...follow the little guy...", come on, Man. That does NOT refer to one's intellect, airmanship, value in aviation, manliness, or anything else negative. Been in the cockpit of a big airplane on a taxiway ? A guy in a Citation is, in fact, by comparison, a "...little guy..." The term does NOT mean the airline guy feels MORE entitled to be there and have better treatment from ATC than the corp guy. We all think we should not have to follow anybody...just keep moving without hindrance. It's a desire to keep the show on the road.

And...airline pilots have no earthly reason to look down their noses at corp guys...and THEY DO NOT !! Corp guys have better layovers and do more interesting flying in better, cooler, and often, more sophisticated airplanes than most airline guys. Size doesn't matter ( I'll keep saying that until my wife believes it ).

More to follow...some time...

 

[Stearmandriver]

Bafanguy, sorry if I offended you. Didn't mean to. I was in a hurry when I wrote that, and I see that I worded a couple things badly which I'l try to fix now, but I'm still in a hurry so hopefully I won't screw them up worse.

First, I was mostly kidding about catching the last commute. Those of us who commute understand the darn near heroic measures we'll take to get home, but I agree that it should never come at a passenger's expense.

I stand by the "little guy" comment. I understand what you're saying that it's usually not meant to be derogatory, but I've heard times when it certainly was. Not so much WHAT was said as the WAY it was said. But, there are a few jerks everywhere. I didn't mean to say that I thought most airline pilots had anything against corp. pilots. Sorry if it came out like that.

Lastly, something no one's mentioned yet but I'd like to clarify. I made a coment about mgmt treating us like we're still flying "freakin Beeches." This was a bit of frustration slipping out about the fact that our mgmt. doesn't want to acknowledge that we might deserve a bit of a raise. We've gone from an 800 pilot operation flying turboprops to a 2500 pilot operation flying 300 jets, but they keep telling us, "you guys are just commuter pilots. You don't deserve any more money." Anyway, I didn't mean to slam Beeches or anyone who flies them. While I never flew the 1900, like most pilots I've got some king air time, and they're sweet planes.

Ok, hopefully enough damage control for one night.

Joe

 

[bafanguy]

stearmandriver,


Absolutely no offense taken...