lifestyle

[JumpJetter]

Good Corporate Companys

All

This is a good thread. I recently started with a Corporate/135 Charter and the 24/7 thing is painful. The saving grace is it's a great company and the guys I fly with are cool. Was wondering if some of you in the industry could list some of the best Corporate Flight Departments to work for. Don't worry about location just what you've had experience with or heard about.

Thanks
JJ

 

[ranger17]

I was wondering if anyone could give some insight in to what kind of hours it would take to get a FO position on a good corporate company?? And any suggestions on the route to take.

Thanks for any input.

 

[English]

I miss flying corporate. I definitely had a lot more time off and more time at home. Plus, it was maybe 10% of the work I do now, and I'm paid 50% less than when I was flying corporate.

Someone remind me why I did this again?

 

[banned username 2]

I was wondering if anyone could give some insight in to what kind of hours it would take to get a FO position on a good corporate company?? And any suggestions on the route to take.

Thanks for any input.

At my company typically an F/O position would require somewhere north of 4,000 hours Total Time, 1,000+ Turbine and a Type Rating or two would be good (doesn't have to be in our type of aircraft). Our absolute minimums are 2,500 Total Time, but that wouldn't be competitive...

 

[501261]

More Corporate Examples

Pay: I don't think I'll ever make over $200K a year, but our pay is very good. Our CEO doesn't like to lose quality employees so it’s enough to keep everybody from taking other jobs (airlines included). In addition to the usual benes (health, vision, dental, 401K, profit sharing, disability, etc.) we also get to keep our airline/hotel points.

Schedule: Day in day we operate as more of a corporate shuttle, taking our management teams to our various offices. Sure we've got trips scheduled 6 months from now, but realistically every Monday-Friday you can plan on taking off at 6:30AM and getting back at 4PM. doesn’t really matter which office your going to so that part of the schedule is less defined. That's pretty much it; I end up flying about 17 days a month. My last "short notice" was in 2000, we had an employee die on site so the crisis management team needed to get there ASAP.

Destinations: Its a nice mix, you've got the day to day shuttle stuff to keep you busy and every now and then a new "site" or meeting to someplace in North America. I personally don't like international, for me I'd rather not worry about the over flight permit, visa, handlers, etc. I'd rather just call up 800-WXBRIEF and go. Not that I don't like to travel internationally (that's were those points come in), I just don't like to work internationally.

 

[Computer Geek]

2. I thought 121 schedules were made well in advance and there is almost no waiting by the phone. My impression of 91 is that schedules aren't known until the last minute. Is that true, or is that more like a 135 carrier?

This maybe true as you gain some seniority, but at my former employer. They would call me more on my days off than when I was actually on reserve. The reason being if you are off the you are considered rested, if your on reserve then they have to follow the contract or FAA's. It got to the point were I turned my phones of when I went to bed and let the voicemail talk to them.


CG

 

[Matterhorn]

I’m with you Jimbodawg, I want to join the ranks of all these pilots who seem to love what they’re doing.
For me the QOL seems better than at the airlines. I’ve got a bunch of friends at Skywest and other regionals and they all tell me I’m better suited for a corporate gig. I’m making more $$$ now than most second year FOs as a chief CFI at a great school but am really feeling the need to move on to higher, faster, farther. I just keep plugging along checking on opportunities as they come (and trying to generate opportunities that haven’t appeared yet.)
Anybody with any advice other than the usual “fly what you can when you can” would be appreciated.

 

[NotFurloughed]

Love the Corporate Life...

I must say that I would rather be flying corporate than flying at all...granted this opinion has resulted from my past experience and is not to be take as a generality...

(oh, by the way AIG is NOT hiring right now...)

I lived with the "pager" and didn't mind it because I was low guy on the totem pole....everybody pays their dues...Eventually that turned into fewer on-call days, which turned into a good schedule, which turned into a Captain job...which turned into a career...

Pay is good, schedule is good...and most importantly quality of life is good (i.e. benefits, schedule, culture, equipment, family time, etc.)

I've done the flight department management stuff, the pilot stuff, the "other" stuff and love it all...as long as it's for a good corporation...

I wont bash the guys who are making tons of money in the majors, or the guys that are being hired at 500TT into a GV (jealous???...oh, i'm NOT one of 'em)...that's the nature of this industry...Corporate flying is 85% who you know and 15% who you haven't pissed off...good flight departments can make a great pilot out of a "greenie"...and that's what some do...

Heck...I know GIV guys making 300+, and that's no sh*%!!, they don't advertise for pilots, nor do they publish in the NBAA survey...but the jobs are out there....

Lovin' it every day!!

 

[DA900B]

I had flown corporate for 12 years before being hired by my airline. My background includes everything from a small charter operator to a Fortune 100 corporation flying as a G-IV captain. I have been to the Great Wall, Germany, and pretty much everywhere else on this planet. I have spent many nights away from home in places that require me to have vaccinations against yellow fever, typhiod and malaria. Those on this board who fly the heavy corporate equipment know about the "Little Yellow Card".

As Falcon Capt said, lifestyle can vary by company. I found my life was most challenging with the Fortune 100 company flying the large aircraft. Long durations away from home on a regular basis and a constant change in schedule. Although the amount of changes will vary from one company to another, invariably it will happen. Corporations own aircraft primarily for point to point convenience and more importantly to meet there schedule not yours. It is very difficult and costly to staff a flight department sufficiently to meet all changes.

There are a few good corporate jobs out there but that could change at any time. My wife works for a Fortune 500 company that was close to being one of the best. The CEO recently retired and a new one took his place resulting in a whole new lifestyle. She is close to resigning. Something to consider when one person can change everything.

As far as stabilty this is very hard to quantify. Yes, being furloughed at my airline during my career is a real possibility. However, my corporate career has led me to 4 short notice shutdowns due to aircraft being sold and 2 resignations due to lifestyle issues. 6 companies in 12 years.

As far as a schedule goes make sure you can differentiate between days off and days not flying. Having x amount of days off in a month by definition will change depending on how you look at it. To me days spent on ready standby in any capacity does not qualify as a day off.

Jimbodawg, looking at your flight time and aircraft flown this may indicate that you are fairly young and just beginning your aviation career. I can remember when I was starting out. I would have given my left leg to sit right seat in any jet. I'm older now and realize what is most important to me, QOL. I absolutly love to fly and love where I am working. Be careful about drawing conclusions based on differences between a corporate and regional airline career. Maybe you will find that good corporate job and have a great career, but look at everything carefully on the day when you must make that important decision.

Take Care...

 

[KrisFlaugher]

Airline vs Corporate

I don't agree with what falconpilot said regarding airline pilots finishing out on top. I currently am just a right seat guy down in West Palm Beach, FL on a Falcon 200, but my pay is almost double than 12 of my buddies that have been doing the airline puddle jump shuffle from San Juan for American or Newark for Continental. Granted I know that there pay will increase over time, but take for example one of my buddies has been with Cont. Exp for 5 years and is just now taking home 2gs a month, and the kicker is he's 32! So, I sit back and say "OK, he will definetly be making 6 figures at some point, but WHEN!", and in that time from the time i'm 21 starting at $35 a year until i'm 32 who is ahead of who? Sure, you can say corporate is unstable which is true, but on the other hand who in the airlines has been laid off in the past 5 years? Somebody, please stand up!! Because, you know it's true that a whole hell of alot of guys have been laid off! And, what have they gotten from that lovely airline experience???? No type in an airplane, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty slow plane, in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty place, waiting on a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty schedule, to go stay in a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty hotel all to say " One of these days..........I'll be making 200gs a year! " Ahhhhhhh......Life IS GOOD!!!

 

[banned username 2]

I don't agree with what falconpilot said regarding airline pilots finishing out on top. I currently am just a right seat guy down in West Palm Beach, FL on a Falcon 200, but my pay is almost double than 12 of my buddies that have been doing the airline puddle jump shuffle from San Juan for American or Newark for Continental. Granted I know that there pay will increase over time, but take for example one of my buddies has been with Cont. Exp for 5 years and is just now taking home 2gs a month, and the kicker is he's 32!

I was talking MAJOR airline pay, not regionals... You are comparing apples to oranges... Regional pay sucks, even Charter beats most regional pay...

 

[bafanguy]

Falcon Capt,


Sounds like you're describing the top of the heap in the corp world ( sounds pretty good to me ). My question would be how much of corp flying world fits your description ? I spent 30+ years at Delta and I could give the kid a glowing description of airline flying that would equal or exceed your good fortune, but I'd hardly be delivering an accurate picture of EVERY airline job. I hope the kid understands the variability of either type flying. I could relate a story or two from my corp friends that would be polar opposite of what you describe and from pretty big companies.

And...for Gulfstream 200: If memory serves me correctly, I recall your comment..."...push the pax out of the way to get off..." when referring to airline pilot behavior from one of your previous posts. All I can say is your are DEAD WRONG. In fact my company's Ops Manual contained a statement that we were to stand in the door saying goodbye to the pax...and in my 30 years, that's what we did. Frankly, I see nothing more in your comment than an anti-airline pilot bias and can't imagine why you would harbor such an attitude. I don't hear airline pilots making snide remarks about corp pilots.

All in all, sounds like some of you folks have it pretty darned good...so did I.

 

[banned username 2]

Sounds like you're describing the top of the heap in the corp world ( sounds pretty good to me ). My question would be how much of corp flying world fits your description ? I spent 30+ years at Delta and I could give the kid a glowing description of airline flying that would equal or exceed your good fortune, but I'd hardly be delivering an accurate picture of EVERY airline job. I hope the kid understands the variability of either type flying. I could relate a story or two from my corp friends that would be polar opposite of what you describe and from pretty big companies.

I would say my job is fairly "middle of the road" as far as large corporate departments go... I know guys with better jobs and I know guys with worse jobs... Mine certainly isn't top of the heap...

 

[bafanguy]

Falcon Capt,


Went back and reread your original long post. If your job is middle of the road, I'd like to hear about a "top of the heap" corp job. The only thing you didn't mention was a formal retirement plan outside 401K; a good retirement plan is critical no matter what you do for a living.

You said you fly 400-450 hrs a year. That sounds better than the 800-850 I did in my last years, but I signed on to fly so no complaint there. And, you undoubtedly go more more interesting places than I did ( you'd have to be...).

It's interesting to see what other people do in flying. I've had contact with Mar, A Squared, and Typhoonpilot and really enjoyed hearing what they had to tell. Those guys have really done some stuff...

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt,


Went back and reread your original long post. If your job is middle of the road, I'd like to hear about a "top of the heap" corp job. The only thing you didn't mention was a formal retirement plan outside 401K; a good retirement plan is critical no matter what you do for a living.

In addition to 401k I have a Company Funded Pension plan... By the time I retire (at 60) it will pay me about 75% of my pre-retirement pay, plus full benefits until I die... This is completely above and beyond my 401k...

If you want to hear about a "top of the heap" corporate job, contact GVFlyer... he has one of those!