Life at NetJets 1 1/2 Later

[Abus300Pilot]

Questions for any NetJet guys/gals out there:

I have an interview coming up and I'm wondering what life is like now. When I applied back in Jan. of 2002 I heard nothing but great things...sounded like the best place on Earth to work. I know there are on going debates about the contract that was supposed to be settled already but with that aside what's it like now?

I'm wondering specifically about the 7/7 schedule--does everyone have that or is that senior or junior or what?
Also along those lines...if the sched goes from Sun thru Sat...are you traveled from/to your gateway on Sun and Sat?

Upgrade time--Are we talking 6 months or a year or two. Does it depend on the airplane and is it strickly
by seniority?

Pay--What is first year F/O pay? I've heard various numbers...I believe the $27,000/yr is the correct one but I
have also heard that it's not difficult to work O.T. and make extra cash that way. Any comments?

Currently I'm flying for a non-sched night freight operation with a 2 week on/off sched....with the prospect of being junior assigned to Asia(28 days on/24 days off) all the time when I upgrade. Even more time away from my family. A year and a half ago NetJets was a place to retire. Is that still the case? Does it depend on this contract(money)? I'm looking for a little more time at home...a faster route to the left seat, but at the same time I can't starve my family waiting for a decent pay check to come in. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm better off where I'm at.

If anyone can help with some or all of these questions I would appreciate it.

Abus300pilot

 

[infoman]

Abus300,

I like working at Netjets been here awhile, plan on staying. You are correct the contract is not done. Enough said about that.

Currently 1\2 of the pilots on the fleets hold 7/7, others hold 17 day schedule. The schedule is bid every 90 days. The 7/7 goes senior. As for travel days. You travel on a scheduled duty day, and it counts as duty time. This is on any schedule. So if Sun start/Sat finish. Those are your travel days. You do have to be within 100 miles of your choosen gateway. Twentyfive is the current count of gateways.

Upgrade. Currently looking at 1.5 years. This may be changing with 25 upgrade bids coming out in past 2 months, and hiring starting again. I understand 200, or so this year.

First year FO pay is 27,108 . OT does exist, but can you live without it.

As for your current position I don't feel qualified to say. Me. No way would I enjoy that schedule, but that is me.

I hope this answered a few questions.

Now let me say why I have stayed here so long. I saw a company growing, and doing something new with airplanes. I have been part of this place when we had a little over 200 pilots. So I have seen the crazy growth.

Has quaulity of life improved? Yes.
Has the day to day road life improved? Yes, but still reinventing the wheel some days.
Do I expect more money for all, and quality of life improvements with the conract? Yes.
Has it been easy(negotiations) ? No. It is business.

Hope this helps. If you have more questions just post them and I will try to answer. I hope some of the guys with 1 to 2 years will also post. It will give you a different look.

Have a Happy.

 

[FLYLOW22]

A300,

The quality of life at NJA is second to none as compared to that of 121 in my opinion. Currently the 7 and 7 is available to the 50% of each fleet who bid it. There are two sunday starts and two tuedsay starts. I challenge any airline too come up with a schedule like that for the majority of it's pilots. In the new contract is supposedly language to allow any pilot who wants 7 & 7 to get it.

Money is an open issue but it's safe to say that the group isn't going to settle for peanuts.

I would say that NJA has never been a place you could retire from... but we're trying to make it that way with this and successive contracts. It just takes a while to get contracts up to the level of say a NWA, DAL, CAL, or other old guard company. It's really a good company and its getting better all the time.

A word of caution to newhires though. Apparently there is contract language in the proposed contract that would limit post contract newhires to living around DAL, CMH, EWR, LAX, and MCO. It is widely thought, however, that that system won't last and will backfire on the company in a short time. NJA has shot themselves operationally in the foot at least twice in the past with aircraft seat locks and by basing all pilots at one time in CMH only. They had to come back to the Union both times for relief. This is no different. Just a fair warning though for the short term you may have to relocate. And the company pays for your move I believe.

 

[Lrjet55]

The new contract should bring 7/7 to all who want it. Its up to you if that is a good thing or not. Having never done the 121 thing I have no comparison. You will never know in advance of where you will overnight but you will be fed non-stop. There are as many upsides as downsides. My next 3 months of 7/7 have me with 17,17,16 days off. Not too bad. Take a sick day here and there and it goes up.


First year F/O pay is around $29,500. Upgrades are slow and figure about 2 years. Take into consideration it takes months to get online(training, indoc, IOE, etc...)

As far as a place to retire, NO! not right now anyhow. No money, benefits, nothing. If the new contract comes out then maybe.

The sad thing is NJA has such tremendous potential. The guys and galls you fly with are excellent people. I am proud of the people I work with and obviously not the company.

Someone posted on our message board a response from an MEC member stating we would be lucky to get 125K by year five. We have some real panzies on the MEC and hopefully they will be voted out with prejiduce.

Flylow22 makes a very good point though. It has taken many years and contracts to get the majors where they are today. Given the proper leadership, which we do not have, we can raise NJA to something very special.

As I mentioned earlier it is not the place to retire yet. But neither was SWA back in the day. Right now its probably better than a regional and not nearly as good as a major. Go to SWA or JB if you can but NJA will not be a bad place to hang your hat for a while.

Good luck on the interview. Again, the people are really great.

Oh yeah, flylow22 eluded to the relocation thing. From my understanding if you are hired prior to the new contract the relocation thing will not apply to you. After the contract is ratified the probably yes. Lastly, NJA does shoot iself in the foot and the new 5 RCA deal is just another shot in the chamber.

 

[Bradyboy]

WOW...I had heard a rumor that the new contract was eliminating gateways and everyone would only need to be within an hour of an airport with airline service to a hub. Again, just a rumor, not from any reliable source. They could have a hard time finding pilots with such a limited base. Good luck to everyone.

 

[Nightmare67]

Deleted

 

[wingnutt]

Originally posted by Nitemare67

$2259.00/month

 

[Nightmare67]

Originally posted by Nitemare67

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[/QUOTE

Tried to get a copy of the NJA payscale on the board but couldn't get the format right.

I'll just say that I've been an FO at NJA for 20 months now and I won't see upgrade for another year or so. More like 2 and that will be in a Beechjet or Ultra.

First year FO pay is, indeed, 2259/mo 27108/yr.
2D year FO is 2364/mo ...28368/yr.

A new contract is our only hope.

And for 'HEAVY SET," dont bother to flame me....just because your out of work dosen't mean I cant bitch about our pay!

 

[wingnutt]

well that sucks.

can someone explain why it is then, that people are so hyped about flying for them?

your post didnt show any f/o that got what i used to make flying a C90 single pilot

with a 17 day schedule and 2200 a month, am i the only one who just cant see the attraction

 

[On Your Six]

Nightmare,

I read your earlier posts with Heavy Set and it didn't seem like he was flaming you. Sounds like he would like to join you at NJA and he is enthusiastic about it - at least that was my impression. I agree though, your salary needs to improve and I am hopeful an eventual contract change will do that.

 

[Schrode]

well that sucks.

can someone explain why it is then, that people are so hyped about flying for them?

your post didnt show any f/o that got what i used to make flying a C90 single pilot

with a 17 day schedule and 2200 a month, am i the only one who just cant see the attraction

Ok. While some are stranded on the SIC payscale for long periods, we are talking about the last 48 people hired at NetJets (out of 1850 pilots). I was hired in 2002, I am a SIC and am on the Captain payscale. I have been since my 6th week at NetJets. Now that the fleet is expanding again, I expect most SIC pay to go away after 6 months or so. Most stay because of the "hope" of a better contract and the promise of retro pay that would bring the low low SIC pay of 27K up to 40K-45K retro active to date of hire. No one knew it would take so long.

With that said, I see the contract problem closed in 3 months (cautiously optimistic). NetJets will be a far better place to work than it is today, including pay. That's the attraction.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Ok. While some are stranded on the SIC payscale for long periods, we are talking about the last 48 people hired at NetJets (out of 1850 pilots). I was hired in 2002, I am a SIC and am on the Captain payscale. I have been since my 6th week at NetJets. Now that the fleet is expanding again, I expect most SIC pay to go away after 6 months or so. Most stay because of the "hope" of a better contract and the promise of retro pay that would bring the low low SIC pay of 27K up to 40K-45K retro active to date of hire. No one knew it would take so long.

With that said, I see the contract problem closed in 3 months (cautiously optimistic). NetJets will be a far better place to work than it is today, including pay. That's the attraction.

You know. I talked to the MEC chair about that very thing (Capt. pay bypass) and he said as long as you keep a standing bid (the bid system of the new contract) in for a captain position of the aircraft you are flying then you will be pay protected in the new contract as well.

 

[wingnutt]

Most stay because of the "hope" of a better contract and the promise of retro pay that would bring the low low SIC pay of 27K up to 40K-45K retro active to date of hire. No one knew it would take so long.

ok, well that helps explain it..but my mindset has always been to never work "hoping" that a certain thing will improve. ive had more than one employer attempt to keep me with the "hope" of getting a bigger airplane, more pay, or better benefits only to have me leave anyways. and you know what? none of the proposed improvements ever came about, even long after i was gone.

as much as i think you guys deserve better (and not to defend management) whats the motivation for them to appease the pilot group on the pay raise issue, much less make it retro? hell, in their eyes youre already in the system, and knew what the pay was when you started.

I was hired in 2002, I am a SIC and am on the Captain payscale. I have been since my 6th week at NetJets.

now that is intriguing...this is an angle i hadnt heard as of yet. how does one get on the captain payscale and not be a PIC, in their 6th week no less?

 

[Lrjet55]

There is a long explanation for this but the quick and dirty answer is:

If a pilot junior to you upgrades, upon passing his/her checkride you both recieve captains pay.

Back in 02 people were being hired left and right and we had a lot of off the street captains meaning they were hired directly into the left seat. For example, when I was hired in Feb 02 I bid captain right away. My seniority number was something like 1530. Anyone with a seniority number less that 1530 who wasnt already a captain began recieving the higher pay when I passed my checkride.

At NJA all we have is hope. We work our asses off and we make sh!t for money. We have a tremendous pilot group who is very talented and very dedicated. Hopefully the stars will align, the tin man will get a heart, and someone will shoot the grinch so that we can get a career instead of a stepping stone.

 

[FLYLOW22]

now that is intriguing...this is an angle i hadnt heard as of yet. how does one get on the captain payscale and not be a PIC, in their 6th week no less?

In the contract it states basically that if the company elects to hire captains off the street (which they did for a time int he CE560) then all senior pilots to them will get pay bypass. I feel for the 48 FO's we have with no PICs junior to them....

 

[wingnutt]

ok then...thanks for the info man, and good luck with the contract

 

[boxhauler]

A300

A300 sounds like you are at Tradewinds. China is going to explode and it's starting now. Depending on your age, I'd stay there till 60 then go fractional.

 

[Abus300Pilot]

No, I'm at their competition. You're right though, Asia is ready to explode but things being what they are I'm not ready to be away from my young family(wife--three little ones) for 32 or even 18 days at a time. At least in the states I can jumpseat home on the weekends to help my wife out with the kids. But over there you're stuck. It's not for me. Some guys like it but the pay doesn't improve for us all that much and to me it's not worth it.

If I wouldn't have to take such a pay cut a fractional would probably be a better deal for me. Right now though, I don't think I could afford it. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd love to hear them.

BTW, Thanks to everyone for replying to my original question...I really appreciate all the input.

Abus300pilot

 

[boxhauler]

Unfortunately, at the fractionals jumpseating is just about out of the question. There are one or two outfits that you can use but 121 is definitely the way to go if you have to commute. Family is number one, and some of the guys here on the 7/7 sked say even that's too much time away from wife and kids. Enjoy your family man, they grow up way to quickly.

 

[Snakeplt]

For those saying, "I stayed here when we were only 200 strong because I saw potential growth...blah...blah...blah..." This translates to, "nobody else would hire me...the majors all turned me down...but I ended up here and, guess what ? THE PAY STILL SUCKS ! BTW, I voted YES for the current contract, because I think it's just KEEN to fly jets. They are so much nicer than 2 and 4 seat single engine recips."