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Letters of Rec for SWA

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LoveGun

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2004
Posts
212
HoHo, I got the call for a february interview at Southwest!! I nearly fell over when I checked my messages and there was a message from Diane wondering if I was still interested in a pilot position at SWA.

Here's my question; how many letters of recommendation are most applicants bringing to the interview? Three is the minimum, but I've heard most people bring eight to ten. I am planning on bringing a letter a from captain I've flown with while I was FO, an FO I've flown with while I was captain, my simulator partner for Dornier, CRJ and 737 training, my chief pilot, and also a couple of my pilot friends that I've known and flown with on and off since college. Is that overkill or not enough? I could easily get some more letters if I had to. My domicile is a fairly small base and I am friends with just about everyone here so i could get a pile of letters if i needed to. Everyone has been very helpfull.

Also, what about letters from nonpilots? I could pull in some letters from people outside aviation. Are those letters helpfull?

Thanks for any advice.
 
I'm not friends with you. LOL

Serioulsy Gun, the more LOR, the better from what I was told.

Good luck buddy, I'm counting on ya.
 
To a point. I've heard of guys with 30 letters, and that's asking the PD to filter them and figure out who to call. They can't call all of them, so now you've made their job harder. I've heard 7-10 is good, I took eight. Chase is the best person to ask though. Send him a PM.
 
yes, some people take unreal numbers of LORs in, and yes there issomehidden truth that you should try to have more than the 3 theyaskfor.however i agree with what others say that if you bringhugenumbersthey are NOT going to read them all.

i recommend this, (and i have ZERO inside knowledge of the system, but it worked for me...)

1. get as many LORs from SWA pilots as you can. 1, 2 or 30. the more the better.

2. get a few GOOD (well written, really focuses on flying skillANDyourpersonality) LORs from pilots outside SWA but don't gooverboardthenumber.

3. they don't suggest this at all but if you want 1 or 2lettersfrommanagement at your aviation companies, ie. a VP of Ops,ChiefPilotetc. even if they haven't flown with you i don't think itwillhurt.

i would think bringing in more than 10 LORs won't do anythingforyouUNLESS the reason why they are over 10 is that it isSWApilotsrecommending you, in that case go over. in your situation.

your mileage may vary.

(edit: i have NO idea why the forum is running my words together, it is a bug somewhere in the forum these last few days.)
 
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Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will bring 8 letters. I called a good mix of people: chief pilot, check airman, FOs, and pilot friends.

Wish me luck.
 
Love Gun, I interviewed yesterday,brought 4 lor's with me 2 of them were from the program manager and checkairman. also had a couple of buds within the company that gave a lor as well. P3hawk
 
I just got the interview call too. A great day...been waiting all my life. I plan to bring 5 to 10 LOR's. And have a bunch of SWA LOR's flooding the DB.

First post...been lurking for a while...hope I don't screw it up!!
:D
 
I just brought the three best (not just content but source) I could come up with ... so far they keep sending me checks.
 
What does a guy do when he doesn't know anyone at SWA? I know inside LORs are ideal, but for us guys who are not aware of anyone we know working there, does that put us at a disadvantage?
 
So what should a guy do that is single pilot?

I have several letters from guys I flew with more than three years ago (when I first applied, WITH the type BTW), but everything I have flown since then has been single pilot and none of my check rides have even been with the same person. Any recommendations?

When they call your "references" is this from your letters of recommendation, or is this another form you fill out with the interview packet. Just curious.

Still waiting for the call.
 
So what should a guy do that is single pilot?

I have several letters from guys I flew with more than three years ago (when I first applied, WITH the type BTW),
Use one fo these guys for sure! But be sure to get it updates and that you have current contact inofrmation for this person.
but everything I have flown since then has been single pilot and none of my check rides have even been with the same person. Any recommendations?
I would just try to get one from this time frame. Use a supervisor, a co worker, a nurse who works in back.

And for the third letter I would dig deeper into your past: a previous supervisor or coworker.
When they call your "references" is this from your letters of recommendation, or is this another form you fill out with the interview packet.
Both
 
Just have them ready. You pull the LORs and other required items out and put them in a stack.
 
No sealed envelope! You'll find the whole process up front and easy going. No fancy folders, no sheet protectors, no blah blah blah. Just give them what they ask for in a nice, organized stack of paper. Period, dot. If you think you want to work for them now, wait until the end of your interview day....that desire doubles due to the ambience of the day.
 
milflyboy said:
So I take it they don't have to be in a sealed envelope from the issuer :)
Click to expand...

Not a requirment - expect them to call them tho.
 
Choose your LORs very carefully. I've read on another post that the biggest reason most guys get turned down is from people that gave them a LOR not backing them up. Good luck.
 
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Skyflyin said:
Choose your LORs very carefully. I've read on another post that the biggest reason most guys get turned down is from people that gave them a LOR not backing them up. Good luck.
Click to expand...

You mean chose the persons giving LORs very carefully - Right? I don't think it would look good if it somehow got out that you had asked a person for a LOR and then decided not to bring it. Also, if I had taken the time to give a LOR to a buddy of mine I sure wouldn't appreciate if he decided not to use it.

I am personnaly going to stick to 3-4 LORs. I really don't think they are going to take the time to read more than that.
 
Yes that is what I mean. Don't ask a guy to write you a LOR just because he is a senior check airman and he flew with you once. You want to ask someone who knows you well and will go to bat for you if Southwest calls them for a reference.
 
When you go to the interview they give you a sheet to list your "current contacts". They will call these people too so be sure to pick appropriate ones. They ask for a "supervisor", but it doesn't have to be the big boss or your immediate supervisor. Obviously don't lie and put a coworker or someone who works for you, but use a little descretion. I used a "big boss" (squadron commander), a direct supervisor(flight commander), and a check airman. I cherry picked my list of ex bosses for people I thought could get hired here (read good dudes/dudettes). Thank goodness too because they called all of them and spoke to two of them for over an hour!
 
ivauir said:
When you go to the interview they give you a sheet to list your "current contacts". They will call these people too so be sure to pick appropriate ones. They ask for a "supervisor", but it doesn't have to be the big boss or your immediate supervisor. Obviously don't lie and put a coworker or someone who works for you, but use a little descretion. I used a "big boss" (squadron commander), a direct supervisor(flight commander), and a check airman. I cherry picked my list of ex bosses for people I thought could get hired here (read good dudes/dudettes). Thank goodness too because they called all of them and spoke to two of them for over an hour!
Click to expand...

It also states the person you list has to attest to your flying ability. If your boss hasn't flown with you don't list him. Find a leader in the company whom you have flown with. If you have a question about it just call SW. They are very accommodating and friendly when you call. It's not a bother to them like it was with United, American, Delta, and the rest of the industry who doesn't get it.
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I really wasn't expecting a response this big. I started out with a list of over 10 guys I would have recomend me, but I've now narrowed it down to five. I was talking about this same subject with a buddy of mine last night, and we came to the conclusion that the decision board most likely doesn't read letters of rec very closely. If every applicant brings in 3-8 letters the decision board is going to have a stack of 300-800 letters to read. No one, not even a SWA employee, is going to read 800 letters of rec each month. I imagine letters of rec come into play for boarderline applicants and might make or break the decision in those cases. For that reason, i want to get the best letters possible, but I also don't plan on getting stressed over letters of rec because I don't think I'll be boarderline. They're either going to like me or they won't. I don't think a letter from a person that SWA doesn't know is going to help me all that much.
 
Additional thoughts about LORs

Some great points about picking those LoRs that you wish to use. They MUST be able to speak to your flying skills....no questions asked. Additionally, the best LORs & references are folks who can speak beyond merely your flying skills & can speak to your character & "why you're a good fit for SWA or company xxx". In speaking to some folks recently who had submitted LORs for folks I'll pass along some observations.

  • Line up these folks early…rushing someone (military or civilian) doesn’t generate the “warm fuzzy” you want the person writing your letter to have about you, i.e. doesn’t plan ahead
  • Allowing titles to influence who submits a LOR versus how well the person really knows you is not good
  • Write a thank you note to the person…simple courtesy & appreciation can leave a huge impression on someone, enough for them to even go the extra mile even further.
  • Communicate with each individual immediately after the interview to again say thanks & let them know how things went….ask to be notified if “they” (the reference) is called
  • Do you know what the supervisor/LOR writer/co-worker will say about you? How would you’re references answer the following question, “Tell me a story that illustrates why “insert your name” would be a great fit into the company?” If all they can say is “great stick, doesn’t beat his spouse, fun to fly with”…guess how many times they hear that? Answering the questions from the background checkers without details or enthusiasm about something specific can leave the impression one’s references are going through the motions. In talking to your references ahead of time try to recall specific events that make the background checker walk away knowing 100% that you’re a good match.
  • If you’re references are called while in the grocery store, nursery or while driving, how well will they answer the questions from your future employer? Will they be putting all the focus on this important phase as should be placed on it? Most companies allow folks to call back at their convenience…this may mean just a few minutes to several hours…delaying the call until the reference is “mentally prepared” to give you the best recommendation possible is an option you may wish to discuss with your references….this is important to you & hopefully they won’t have to be deciding between diet & regular coke or dodging traffic while answering the questions…”I’ll call you back” is always an option!! In an effort to be expeditious & respond immediately, your references don't want to have any regrets about things they wished they had said but were distracted or were unprepared for the call...do it on their own terms with proper thought & preparation!
  • If you don’t get the offer don’t leave your references in the dark….let them know you’re still interested….actually anyone in the process…they maybe able to help you find out why it didn’t work out….don’t feel embarrassed & miss the opportunity to get feedback (maybe, maybe not)
Good luck to all!
 
Chase, you always provide thoughtful answers to all the questions on this board. I believe I have read most of them, and you are part of the reason I would like to work at SWA. If you are the kind of person they hire, I know I will enjoy working there. Thanks again. Hope to meet you someday......
 
Good Stuff Chase - Makes a lot of sense.

Are you with HP? Makes me look even more forward to going there. I have already had the pleasure to talk Laraine and Gail and they have gone above and beyond to help me out. Some very valuable people you have there !
Also had the occasion to speak to Mark twice. First time during an Air Inc seminar in 2002 and the second time on a flight from Dallas to London in 2003. Convinced me that Higher Power was Top Notch. :)

Can't Wait !!!
 

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