orangebellyav8r
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letter from AT MEC
- Thread starter orangebellyav8r
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Hose A. Jiminez
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June 17, 2011
This week, the ATN MEC Merger Committee (MC) continued SLI talks at the SWAPA offices in Dallas, with the SWAPA M&A Committee. Joining the two committees on Wednesday, for a detailed briefing on the status of Southwest’s transition and post-integration plans, were Southwest VP of Labor & Employee Relations, Joe Harris, SWA Senior Director of Crew Operations and Employee Resources, Russell McCrady, and SWA Manager of Crew Planning, Steve Jones.
In addition to the briefing, your MC responded to a proposal made by SWAPA last week, with an ISL counterproposal, to which SWAPA representatives responded, on Wednesday afternoon, with a counterproposal of their own. Questions and discussions regarding the proposals were extensive, and at times, spirited. But while there are clear dissimilarities in the positions of each side, the atmosphere of the negotiations remains friendly, some gaps have closed, and the parties continue their good faith efforts to bridge their differences.
As SLI talks continue, MC members are asked more and more often if a list constructed according to “Formula XYZ” is the best or worst we might expect in the event the ISL is decided through arbitration. But instead of predicting a specific outcome, a mistake other merger committees have made, which has proven them to be less than psychic, the MC has briefed the MEC on a range of best and worst-case arbitration scenarios, and possibilities in between. These potential outcomes vary widely, from very good to very bad. When considering arbitration results, it’s also worth remembering that unlike court rulings, arbitration awards do not carry the authority of precedent. That means arbitrators aren’t bound by examples of other recent cases, and are instead free to shape an award that best fits the unique circumstances of that particular merger. As arbitrator George Nicolau said in his 1990 ISL award in the FedEx-Flying Tigers merger:
“There are four basic lessons to be learned…; Each case turns on its own facts; that the objective is to make the integration fair and equitable; that the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard; and that the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance.”
In short, the results of binding arbitration are largely unpredictable. In addition, one can’t ignore recent “binding” ISL arbitrations, which are being challenged in court by one party or another, such as the US Airways/America West case and more recent Frontier/Republic award. Taken together, it simply means that both the results and implementation schedule of an arbitrated ISL can be less than certain.
As for the talks themselves, SLI negotiations resume in Dallas on Wednesday, July 6, with a presentation from Southwest management. Next week, the MC resumes work in Atlanta, with a special emphasis on conducting briefings and updates for the MEC, P2P Members, and the pilot group at large. In the meantime, we encourage you to continue sending your merger-related questions and concerns to [email protected], and visit www.atnmerger.alpa.org for the latest merger news and information.
This week, the ATN MEC Merger Committee (MC) continued SLI talks at the SWAPA offices in Dallas, with the SWAPA M&A Committee. Joining the two committees on Wednesday, for a detailed briefing on the status of Southwest’s transition and post-integration plans, were Southwest VP of Labor & Employee Relations, Joe Harris, SWA Senior Director of Crew Operations and Employee Resources, Russell McCrady, and SWA Manager of Crew Planning, Steve Jones.
In addition to the briefing, your MC responded to a proposal made by SWAPA last week, with an ISL counterproposal, to which SWAPA representatives responded, on Wednesday afternoon, with a counterproposal of their own. Questions and discussions regarding the proposals were extensive, and at times, spirited. But while there are clear dissimilarities in the positions of each side, the atmosphere of the negotiations remains friendly, some gaps have closed, and the parties continue their good faith efforts to bridge their differences.
As SLI talks continue, MC members are asked more and more often if a list constructed according to “Formula XYZ” is the best or worst we might expect in the event the ISL is decided through arbitration. But instead of predicting a specific outcome, a mistake other merger committees have made, which has proven them to be less than psychic, the MC has briefed the MEC on a range of best and worst-case arbitration scenarios, and possibilities in between. These potential outcomes vary widely, from very good to very bad. When considering arbitration results, it’s also worth remembering that unlike court rulings, arbitration awards do not carry the authority of precedent. That means arbitrators aren’t bound by examples of other recent cases, and are instead free to shape an award that best fits the unique circumstances of that particular merger. As arbitrator George Nicolau said in his 1990 ISL award in the FedEx-Flying Tigers merger:
“There are four basic lessons to be learned…; Each case turns on its own facts; that the objective is to make the integration fair and equitable; that the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard; and that the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance.”
In short, the results of binding arbitration are largely unpredictable. In addition, one can’t ignore recent “binding” ISL arbitrations, which are being challenged in court by one party or another, such as the US Airways/America West case and more recent Frontier/Republic award. Taken together, it simply means that both the results and implementation schedule of an arbitrated ISL can be less than certain.
As for the talks themselves, SLI negotiations resume in Dallas on Wednesday, July 6, with a presentation from Southwest management. Next week, the MC resumes work in Atlanta, with a special emphasis on conducting briefings and updates for the MEC, P2P Members, and the pilot group at large. In the meantime, we encourage you to continue sending your merger-related questions and concerns to [email protected], and visit www.atnmerger.alpa.org for the latest merger news and information.
Flycatcher99
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MILF Hunter
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This latest blog from SWAPA is pretty interesting!
Executive Blog - June 17, 2011
From your vice president, Aaron Anton
Hello, SWAPA pilots. I recently had an opportunity to finally get out and fly a 3-day trip. Ironically, instead of sitting at my desk in Dallas, I was flying overhead while SWAPA was getting pelted with baseball-sized hail. One heckuva lightning show! The first day of my trip, we were three hours late thanks to +TSRA in DEN. The third day, we endured another hail storm (same system, this time in STL), the ensuing hail inspection, terminal evacuation (severe T-storm), captain got re-assigned, shot approach to mins in the rain @ MDW, and finally got to ABQ five hours late for my unscheduled overnight after my last two legs back to LAS got canceled. Despite the difficulties, I thoroughly enjoyed being back on the line (if only for a trip), appreciated the conversations with several of you in the jetways and the hotel bar, and got a fresh reminder of the challenges you all face every trip. Thank you for all that you do day-in and day-out!
Speaking of challenges, we’ve got a handful down here at SWAPA. Your Negotiating Committee has been meeting with their AirTran-ALPA counterparts every week for a month now. Progress is being made on both sides, and a negotiated settlement remains the objective. I still believe that this is a real possibility. However, no matter how much we would like a negotiated settlement, we will not settle for any deal which harms SWAPA pilots, individually or collectively, now or in the future. Nor will we settle for any deal in which SWAPA pilots don’t share in the gains. It’s impossible to match AirTran-ALPA’s gains (we already have our contract), but we will not settle unless we gain as well.
You know we can’t talk about positions, but what I can talk about is the planning going on inside SWAPA. While we don’t know when (if?) we’re ever going to integrate with AirTran, we are preparing for all possible contingencies. One of the contingencies we’re discussing is IF we get a seniority deal, how best to communicate all applicable information to you so that you may make as educated a vote as possible. One thing that we will ensure is that SWAPA will not be “selling” anything. There will be no “SWA Gains/SWAPA Gains” type of BS (for those that remember that debacle). We are going to make every effort to give you just the facts and put every possible SWAPA resource at your disposal so that all of your questions can be answered. We’ve been saving for a “rainy day” for some time, but this is not the time to be frugal. This IS the rainy day! As such, we will not spare any expense defending your seniority, and we’ll ensure that no stone is left unturned until there are no more questions to be answered. And the great news is that despite our willingness to utilize every resource, SWAPA is still on pace for over a million dollar surplus for the year. Your Association is in fantastic shape, both in terms of resources and finances.
One resource coming your way next week is the SWAPA App, for iPhone AND iPad. Almost half of you have an iPhone, and a quarter of you have an iPad…and the numbers keep growing every day. We think you’re going to love it. Please use it! Features include a searchable contract, logbook (does the work for you!), SWAPA contacts at your fingertips, and more. It’s only version 1.0, so it will continue to get better and better, but I think it’s pretty good to start with. When you see it, let us know what you think and how we can make it even better. (Droid app coming soon, btw)
Thanks for reading. Stay cool out there. And one more thing: Please fill out an ASAP and an IR if you’re getting ground-air pulled early, getting electric pulled without permission, or any other gate-related abnormality. It’s distracting, uncomfortable, and affects safety…and Flight Ops leadership can’t do anything about the problem unless they have something in writing to fight the appropriate battles.
Finally, with regard to Ronald McDonald House van fundraising, we’re nearing an amount that can purchase three vans for this great charity. Thanks to those to those who have contributed.
Aaron
A friend of mine at AAI says she was reading their forum and this letter is the subject of a thread. They got it quick!
She told me that apparently one comment claims their MEC has addressed this letter with SWA mgmt. I wonder how that will shape the tone of the 'presentation' on 7/6 in DAL?
Executive Blog - June 17, 2011
From your vice president, Aaron Anton
Hello, SWAPA pilots. I recently had an opportunity to finally get out and fly a 3-day trip. Ironically, instead of sitting at my desk in Dallas, I was flying overhead while SWAPA was getting pelted with baseball-sized hail. One heckuva lightning show! The first day of my trip, we were three hours late thanks to +TSRA in DEN. The third day, we endured another hail storm (same system, this time in STL), the ensuing hail inspection, terminal evacuation (severe T-storm), captain got re-assigned, shot approach to mins in the rain @ MDW, and finally got to ABQ five hours late for my unscheduled overnight after my last two legs back to LAS got canceled. Despite the difficulties, I thoroughly enjoyed being back on the line (if only for a trip), appreciated the conversations with several of you in the jetways and the hotel bar, and got a fresh reminder of the challenges you all face every trip. Thank you for all that you do day-in and day-out!
Speaking of challenges, we’ve got a handful down here at SWAPA. Your Negotiating Committee has been meeting with their AirTran-ALPA counterparts every week for a month now. Progress is being made on both sides, and a negotiated settlement remains the objective. I still believe that this is a real possibility. However, no matter how much we would like a negotiated settlement, we will not settle for any deal which harms SWAPA pilots, individually or collectively, now or in the future. Nor will we settle for any deal in which SWAPA pilots don’t share in the gains. It’s impossible to match AirTran-ALPA’s gains (we already have our contract), but we will not settle unless we gain as well.
You know we can’t talk about positions, but what I can talk about is the planning going on inside SWAPA. While we don’t know when (if?) we’re ever going to integrate with AirTran, we are preparing for all possible contingencies. One of the contingencies we’re discussing is IF we get a seniority deal, how best to communicate all applicable information to you so that you may make as educated a vote as possible. One thing that we will ensure is that SWAPA will not be “selling” anything. There will be no “SWA Gains/SWAPA Gains” type of BS (for those that remember that debacle). We are going to make every effort to give you just the facts and put every possible SWAPA resource at your disposal so that all of your questions can be answered. We’ve been saving for a “rainy day” for some time, but this is not the time to be frugal. This IS the rainy day! As such, we will not spare any expense defending your seniority, and we’ll ensure that no stone is left unturned until there are no more questions to be answered. And the great news is that despite our willingness to utilize every resource, SWAPA is still on pace for over a million dollar surplus for the year. Your Association is in fantastic shape, both in terms of resources and finances.
One resource coming your way next week is the SWAPA App, for iPhone AND iPad. Almost half of you have an iPhone, and a quarter of you have an iPad…and the numbers keep growing every day. We think you’re going to love it. Please use it! Features include a searchable contract, logbook (does the work for you!), SWAPA contacts at your fingertips, and more. It’s only version 1.0, so it will continue to get better and better, but I think it’s pretty good to start with. When you see it, let us know what you think and how we can make it even better. (Droid app coming soon, btw)
Thanks for reading. Stay cool out there. And one more thing: Please fill out an ASAP and an IR if you’re getting ground-air pulled early, getting electric pulled without permission, or any other gate-related abnormality. It’s distracting, uncomfortable, and affects safety…and Flight Ops leadership can’t do anything about the problem unless they have something in writing to fight the appropriate battles.
Finally, with regard to Ronald McDonald House van fundraising, we’re nearing an amount that can purchase three vans for this great charity. Thanks to those to those who have contributed.
Aaron
A friend of mine at AAI says she was reading their forum and this letter is the subject of a thread. They got it quick!
She told me that apparently one comment claims their MEC has addressed this letter with SWA mgmt. I wonder how that will shape the tone of the 'presentation' on 7/6 in DAL?
humveedriver
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GuppyWN
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Raoul Duke
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onewithwings
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I've had it since the 17th and I didn't post it!
Gup
THANK YOU! I appreciate the fact that you aren't ruffling feathers with these letters that need to be between the two work groups and NOT posted on a public forum.
On a side note: I happen to know one of the WN employees who is paid to monitor (read: lurk) these aviation bulletin boards. Just so you know, "big brother" IS watching you. I would be careful what you post.
Happy posting...
This is all getting boring: AAI pilots vs SWA Pilots....all for OYS and GL's entertainment...when it is all said and done, the toys will be shared, life will go on and we will all be crying into our 6 figure cereal bowls...hopefully we will all be equally pissed off, then you really have a fair integration...SWA as a company needs its merged employees to "man up" and continue providing our Positively Outrageous Service our customers pay for...I will still not wear the "one luv" lanyard because I am a pilot not a cheer leader and I don't think our AAI pilot brothers need a hug from me...leave that rah rah crap for the other employee groups...it could be worse we all could have been hired by Delta...(thank GOD I couldn't pass the little computer test)...
I will start off with thank you for what you do.
A person can post what ever he or she wants ( as long he or she she is following the rules). If a SWA or AT has a opinion he or she has the right to post it. You just made that comment sound like "you better watch out or else". While I don't agree about the letters being posted, I do agree AT/SWA has the right to defend them selfs and SWA does too. It's a debate that is pride based. In the end AT pilots will be here and we all will strive to make this a better place. I will be glad for you to put me in personal contact with this person that works at WN. Then we can have a meeting in dallas and discuss what would reasoning behind his or her Job title, and what will be the repercussions from a legal stand point if a SWA or AT pilot post something that they don't like. If there is, then FI needs to shut down.
canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
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I agree with you. If SWA is paying somebody to read a message board, then I as a shareholder, have a big problem with it. This would be a gigantic waste of company resources and money, not to mention cutting into our profit sharing. I have to doubt what the moderator posted is true, but it might just take a letter to Dallas to unravel this.
Oh, and "On a side note" I would be careful what you say if it is indeed not factual.
scoreboardII
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Ky.BrownBourbn
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eaglesview
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Really, are you serious. WN wastes it's manpower on reading aviation bourds that have posts put up by annonymous people that may or may not be pilots and can write anything they want. That's comical.
onewithwings
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This person has been a close friend for over 10 years and I would not betray the trust...and yes it is indeed factual that they exist. My own employer has them as well. Most carriers do...truth be known.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I simply wanted you to be aware of the fact and watch your posterior. It wasn't intended as a threat only to raise some awareness.
As far as legality issues, there is a "right to know" law and a carrier (through their legal department) can request contact info and ISP addresses. I've seen it done before on other BB's I've moderated...I'm just sayin'.
onewithwings
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I haven't seen it done on this particular BB but I have on another aviation BB I've moderated. However, that was several years ago.
On a side note: As a moderator, I don't have the authority to give out that information. It is done strictly by the owner of the website.
Last edited:
scoreboardII
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Thanks for the info. The only way this could happen is if the poster violated a federal, State, or local Law. Or info can be used as evidence in court. FI is hardly the case. I'm sure all us AT/SWA people will put on are big boy shoes and walk together when this is all done.
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