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Less RJ flying in the future?

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igneousy2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Posts
1,262
Here is part of the article which speaks directly about RJ's

The entire article is: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/brancatelli/2007-09-24-impending-shortages_N.htm

A shortage of RJ pilots
There is a delicious irony in this one: Airlines ramming those hateful regional jets (RJ) down our throats and clogging the nation's skies and airports with the tiny, delay-creating aircraft are running out of pilots to fly them. Why? Because the commuter carriers that fly the RJs at the behest of the Big Six don't pay enough.

Commuter carriers have never paid much, of course, but RJ pilots put up with the lousy pay much as minor-league baseball players put up with low wages. Eventually, they knew, there'd be a call up to the major leagues, where the money is good and the working conditions are better. But with the Big Six slashing their traditional jet flying, call ups to the majors are few and far between. And since pilots can often make more money as a career truck driver than a career employee of a commuter carrier, there's virtually no incentive to fly RJs. The result? Commuter carriers have lots of assignments from the Big Six, but they are running out of people willing to crew the planes.
A simple solution would be for regional airlines to pay more, of course. But that's not likely to happen because the Big Six pay the commuter carriers so little to fly the routes and carry the codes. If they hike pilot pay, they'd lose money—or they'd have to fight the Big Six for better flying rates. So this is one time Big Six parsimony could work in our favor. Faced with paying more for RJ service, the Big Six might be tempted to resume flying real jets with well-paid pilots who work directly for them. That could mean more comfortable planes and fewer flight delays. (I told you I was a cockeyed optimist!)
 
"...the Big Six might be tempted to resume flying real jets with well-paid pilots who work directly for them."

What a bunch of crap....
 
Pay at the regionals will never increase much. Maybe a dollar here, a dollar there, but don't expect a light at the end of the tunnel. As soon as the regional can't staff the RJs, they'll park them and life will continue.

Even though just 5 dollars more a ticket spread accross the flight crews would make a huge difference in the RJ world and make this career much more desirable, it won't happen.

The unions are powerless and no influential people care.
 
I made more at my last regional than I do at JB.....Once I hit the upgrade to the 100 seater I will make what I did in the 50 seater...as long as I am holding a line.

You were saying?
 
As long as SWA. JB and the like dictate domestic ticket prices- your dreams of fewer RJ's are just that.(Dreams) So dream on dude!
 
As long as SWA. JB and the like dictate domestic ticket prices- your dreams of fewer RJ's are just that.(Dreams) So dream on dude!

What does SW and JB and/or their ticket prices have to do with keeping RJ's around? RJ's are and always have been very expensive seats, despite the low pilot pay. The lower ticket prices get, the less competitive an RJ is compared to a larger plane. It was the business traveler during the dot com 90's willing to pay 1 or 2 grand to fly 500 miles to a mid sized airport that caused the 12 year RJ frenzy to grow out of control in the first place. 2 or 3 of those suckers would more than pay for an entire flight, and airlines could stuff the rest of the cabin with supersavers for pure profit.
 
The one thing that alot of folks forget about is what else could cause the death of RJ's.

The bottom line is that there are more people flying than ever and the total number of large airports hasnt changed in this country in more than a decade.
If you started to build one today..you wouldnt get the first paying passenger to the gate for nearly 20 years.

No..It wont be pay..It will be the need to increase throughput with the current airport/airspace system.

The increase in passenger travel will continue to increase the pressure to have slot times at ALL large airports.Once that happens..The ONLY way to get more people in the system will be planes with more seats per available slot.

My guess is that anything less than about 100 seats wont even be allowed to operate at a slot controlled airport.

With the FAA already making noise about the airlines cutting back on the over stuffed schedules its only a matter of time.
Things like having twice the number of hourly departures scheduled during the first push or late afternoon push is gonna stop.

In order to move the same number of bodies per hour you need more seats with people in them.

So..The less than 100 seat RJ is a dead man walking.Its going to die for all the right reasons and those are the same reasons we all knew in the beggining.They are too expencive to operate per leg..And soon..They will be too expencive to operate per slot.

Its just a matter of time.
 
MLB, I totally agree. Unfortunately, the 50-70 seat Rjs are being replaced by the EMB170-195's and are being called "RJ's" and are being flown by commuter airlines for commuter wages.

It wasn't that long ago that we were flying around in DC-9-10's that had the same number of seats and we were getting paid a hell of a lot more - and working for a major airline.
 
It wasn't that long ago that we were flying around in DC-9-10's that had the same number of seats and we were getting paid a hell of a lot more - and working for a major airline.


Yeah, and the same guys who gave those jobs away are now the ones pushing for age 65.
 
Yeah, and the same guys who gave those jobs away are now the ones pushing for age 65.

Nice...

I love how the same guys who gave away the 50-60-70 seat market to the commuters are "suprised" to see pilots flying them. What other choice do we have? Do they expect us to find another career? If so, and things are so bad now, why haven't they either? Sounds like a serious case of passing the buck.

What really cracks me up is how the guys who were willing to drive around a J31 for 8 years at $30 bucks complain about the young "shinny jet" pilots. I'd bet if they had the chance to fly an RJ back then, 100% of them would be doing the same ******************** we are...for probably even less just to get out of the J31.
 
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The one thing that alot of folks forget about is what else could cause the death of RJ's.

The bottom line is that there are more people flying than ever and the total number of large airports hasnt changed in this country in more than a decade.
If you started to build one today..you wouldnt get the first paying passenger to the gate for nearly 20 years.

No..It wont be pay..It will be the need to increase throughput with the current airport/airspace system.

The increase in passenger travel will continue to increase the pressure to have slot times at ALL large airports.Once that happens..The ONLY way to get more people in the system will be planes with more seats per available slot.

My guess is that anything less than about 100 seats wont even be allowed to operate at a slot controlled airport.

With the FAA already making noise about the airlines cutting back on the over stuffed schedules its only a matter of time.
Things like having twice the number of hourly departures scheduled during the first push or late afternoon push is gonna stop.

In order to move the same number of bodies per hour you need more seats with people in them.

So..The less than 100 seat RJ is a dead man walking.Its going to die for all the right reasons and those are the same reasons we all knew in the beggining.They are too expencive to operate per leg..And soon..They will be too expencive to operate per slot.

Its just a matter of time.

On the surface, that sounds great until you factor in the hundreds of smaller and medium size cities that can't support larger equipment.

Most cities need at least 4 flights daily in and out to justify a ground operation. Is SHV, MAF, CMI, CID, GRB GSP, etc. gonna support at least 4 narrow body jets every day ?

Doubt it.

There will ALWAYS be a need for samller aircraft and the frequency travelers demand to these cities. I think there WILL be a reduction in RJ ops over the next 5 years, but they will NOT disappear as some fantasize.

For that to happen, these cities would be left to the auto with high gas prices to drive up to several hours to the nearest hub...........and a lot of their politicians who must cater to those pissed off people will be none to happy.
 
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What about the possibility of increasing the number of hubs?
 
Sure RJ are great when used in the correct stage length. Not 2 hr legs
 

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