Leaving B6

[1Speedbird]

I believe most other airlines make you resign your previous job before they will train you, so the non-compete clause is actually better for furloughees.

Thank you for pointing this out! It is a better option since it is actually an option.

 

[Beechnut]

With you signing the 5 yr contract. Is it anything dealing with, like say they get in a really hardship. They have 20yr pilots and need to cut costs and your contract comes up can they just get rid of you?

Consider the consequences for the company in doing that:

1.) If the the pilots are not unionized 13 years from now, they would have a union about 30 seconds after that 20 year guy was released.

2.) If the pilots are unionized, then that wouldn't happen because you would have a CBA instead of individual contracts.

Either way, it wouldn't be in the Company's overall best interest to fire long term employees.

S.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Red flag alert. If JetBlue is such a great airline, why have a non-compete clause at all? People shouldn't be leaving such a great airline - right? I understand recouping training costs, but a non-compete clause? This isn't consulting... Is that common at other airlines? I just don't know.

That is lame to fence someone in if they really want to leave and return to a former airline. Do you want them to stay and be negative?

Well, how many other airlines REQUIRE your to resign your seniority at a previous company?

JB didn't make me resign mine.

GP

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Doh!

Double post.

GP

 

[ultrarunner]

Just curious...if JB terminates you, are you obligated by the terms of the non-compete clause, or does the contract only protect the employer?

 

[johnsonrod]

Well, how many other airlines REQUIRE your to resign your seniority at a previous company?

JB didn't make me resign mine.

GP

ASA allowed Delta furloughees to work there (unlike Comair) until they were recalled. Great diversion question. Why call attention to this when nobody is answering the following question:

If JetBlue is so great and confident about retaining newhires, why have a non-compete at all?

No other carrier requires non-competes - that says it all. Just seems a little odd.

 

[B6Driver]

If you're all that worried, just don't apply.
See how simple it is.................

 

[sligo1]

I agree

If your so worried then just don't apply and save me the job.

 

[dudemize]

The non compete is really not a big deal at all. When JetBlue was just starting out there was a lot of furloughed pilots on the street. Their policy from the beginning was that they would not require furloughees to resign from their previous carriers. However, the non compete was placed in the contract to ensure that JB at least got their money's worth for all the training costs.

It seems to me the fact that JetBlue did not require them to resign actually shows the confidence they have in their airline, not vice versa.

 

[1Speedbird]

ASA allowed Delta furloughees to work there (unlike Comair) until they were recalled. Great diversion question. Why call attention to this when nobody is answering the following question:

If JetBlue is so great and confident about retaining newhires, why have a non-compete at all?

No other carrier requires non-competes - that says it all. Just seems a little odd.

JRod
You are absolutly right. B6 should be just like all the rest of the airlines and simply require you to resign before showing up for class. As far as leaving for Kaletta that is total flame because I dont think anyone would be that stupid
!

 

[FlyAuburn]

JRod
You are absolutly right. B6 should be just like all the rest of the airlines and simply require you to resign before showing up for class. As far as leaving for Kaletta that is total flame because I dont think anyone would be that stupid
!

Actually Speedbird, it is true. He's a friend of mine and he did leave. He's a good guy and I'm sure he had his reasons. Good luck to him and too bad he was junior to me.

:beer:

 

[johnsonrod]

JRod
You are absolutly right. B6 should be just like all the rest of the airlines and simply require you to resign before showing up for class. As far as leaving for Kaletta that is total flame because I dont think anyone would be that stupid
!

Not everyone wants to fly a Bus (or have it fly them) around the US for the rest of their career. Some people want to see the world and fly the venerable whale - sounds like a great experience. Will he be able to handle those long 17-day tours and the jet lag associated with long-haul travel - who knows? Some people might and good for him for trying if he is young enough (sounds like it) and he doesn't have much to lose. Better to do that than regret never making that jump for the rest of your long career... At least he'll have some good stories to tell.

 

[g159av8tor]

Better to do that than regret never making that jump for the rest of your long career... At least he'll have some good stories to tell.

Ditto that. And He'll be ablt to answer all those "tell me about a time" scenario questions at his next interview. I admire the guy's courage to have an experience in life...tailwinds.

 

[PCL_128]

Kalitta (along with Cathay) has turned into the UPS training ground. Doesn't seem like such a bad decision to me.

 

[da90drivr]

What was his hire date?

 

[Vastly Underemp]

F-16 and Mr. Murdoch touched on the subject: all the rest of the majors do have a no-compete clause, they just call it something different and permanent. They all make you resign your seniority number from your previous carrier before allowing you to begin training. That is even more restrictive than a non-compete clause.

And let me add my voice to the chorus: if you don't like it, don't apply.

 

[On Your Six]

F-16 and Mr. Murdoch touched on the subject: all the rest of the majors do have a no-compete clause, they just call it something different and permanent. They all make you resign your seniority number from your previous carrier before allowing you to begin training. That is even more restrictive than a non-compete clause.

And let me add my voice to the chorus: if you don't like it, don't apply.

It's still a lame policy - an outlier regardless of what you call it. Most pilots other than furloughees would resign their seniority numbers anyway if they were under the impression that Jet Blue was going to be their final stop. But what if JB turns out to not be the wonderful employer everyone portrays it to be. Sometimes people make the wrong choices. Are you saying they can't now return to their previous employer if they felt they made a mistake? You can if you work for SWA, DAL, CAL, Spirit, Alaska, Hawaiian, USAirways, etc., etc. I am not saying one should return to a regional but it happens.

Furloughees not resigning their seniority numbers is a completely separate issue. ASA didn't force DAL furloughees to resign their numbers either. Jet Blue benefitted from having experienced furloughees from DAL and USAirways populating their flightdecks - don't forget that. This non-compete policy is an outlier and a bit restrictive in this vagabond business.

Sure, pilots who don't like it shouldn't apply - that's an easy thing to say. Let's hope that eligible pilots who have other options are listening...

 

[Booster]

According to the Pilot Agreement JB pilot signs, s/he cannot go back to the airline you left to come to JB for 2 years. After that you are free to go back if you see it as a better deal.

 

[On Your Six]

According to the Pilot Agreement JB pilot signs, s/he cannot go back to the airline you left to come to JB for 2 years. After that you are free to go back if you see it as a better deal.

And your point? JB is the only airline that does that - why? I don't care if they don't ask furloughees to give up their seniority numbers. Different situation. We are talking about a restrictive policy that is very unnecessary. This ain't consulting or financial services where access to sensitive data would make you dangerous to the business - we are talking about line pilots. Two years is a long time if you feel you made a mistake.

No wonder JB pilots are leaving for SWA, DAL, CAL, UPS and others - they pay more and they are less oppressive. Just admit it, this policy is an outlier in the business and simply not necessary. Why prevent someone from returning to a previous carrier if that move would make them happier? Do you want them to stew and be pissed? If we were talking about part 135 flying and typical training bonds that would be one thing, but this non-compete policy is an anomoly for pilots in the airline business.

It's just odd that a "progressive" airline like JB would have one of these restrictive policies...

 

[Puck Mugger]

And your point? JB is the only airline that does that - why? I don't care if they don't ask furloughees to give up their seniority numbers. Different situation. We are talking about a restrictive policy that is very unnecessary. This ain't consulting or financial services where access to sensitive data would make you dangerous to the business - we are talking about line pilots. Two years is a long time if you feel you made a mistake.

No wonder JB pilots are leaving for SWA, DAL, CAL, UPS and others - they pay more and they are less oppressive. Just admit it, this policy is an outlier in the business and simply not necessary. Why prevent someone from returning to a previous carrier if that move would make them happier? Do you want them to stew and be pissed? If we were talking about part 135 flying and typical training bonds that would be one thing, but this non-compete policy is an anomoly for pilots in the airline business.

It's just odd that a "progressive" airline like JB would have one of these restrictive policies...

So....long story short....I guess you won't be applying.

 

[NewmanF16]

How can you complain about a policy that actually is a benefit to pilots over all the other carriers? I understand B6's policy completely. They don't want to invest in training so the guy can turn around and leave back to his previous seniority number before they get a return on investment. I think they are betting that the QOL or atmosphere at B6 will cause these guys to stay (and I know 2 guys that are struggling right now with the decision to get recalled or stay at B6--they all like the atmosphere at B6 way more than the legacy they were furloughed from).

Any other airline job they may have taken would have cost them their seniority number, and they wouldn't even have a choice to make now.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

OK, let's look at some of your examples.....

Let's say I was furloughed from a legacy, say AA, and I applied to a next tier carrier, say ATA. ATA said they'd hire me if I resign my seniority number at AA. I willingly do so because I think you can't resign from a place that you don't work. But the intent (by ATA) is that I have given away my seniority/recall number at AA and I can NEVER go back there. JetBlue only requires that I not return to my previous carrier for 2 years. Sounds more lenient to me.

The same would apply wherever you go. If I were to get furloughed from CAL and then hired by AA, AA would require me to PERMANENTlY resign my seniority from CAL. F-16 said it, it's an attempt to recoup training costs, although I thought training costs were the excuse to pay probationaries crap money. Hmmmmm, management doubledipping all these years? Naaaaah.

 

[Booster]

On Your Six

And your point? quote =off]

The point is I am answering your question.
According to the Pilot Agreement JB pilots sign, s/he cannot go back to the airline you left to come to JB for 2 years. After that you are free to go back if you see it as a better deal.

 

[AKAAB]

It simply comes down to return on investment and promoting the company culture.

As it was explained to the ranks, why would we want to force you to stay at JB if you didn't want to stay? Forcing you to resign your seniority is essentially forcing you to start at the bottom of the ladder somewhere if you left JetBlue.

We took on furloughees and were trying to make sure we got a reasonable return on the expense of hiring a new guy. Two years non-compete and no requirement to give up your senoirity at your previous airline was a pretty sweet offer for a ton of pilots that were looking for work a couple of years ago.

Instead of stock options, some guys are now reaping the reward of JB giving them "career options". They could have been worthless, and for some they are (sorry, East guys and gals), but they could get you back at your favorite legacy when their fortunes improved.