Leave SWA for AA or Delta?

[General Lee]

If you had any reading comprehension, you would have seen that the post that I quoted refereed to the industry being littered with those that got burned leaving for greener pastures. That is a fact that even you, in your infinite quest to be Captain Obtuse, cannot deny.

Be specific Howie. And not everyone is casualty of this industry. If you are in a place that you don't enjoy, there are other options, especially for PO'd bottom dwellers at SWA. Sure, pay may be ok right now, but stagnation due to your interesting merger may be primary on those guys' minds.

Don't get so defensive btw. During the legacy BKs many pilots left for your airline. I expect the same amount or more to think about leaving yours. Just let it happen. If you are happy flying in and out of El Paso, then good for you. Some people aspire for something quite different.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

So back to square one

If you're senior to me- you ought to leave for anywhere.

Junior? It's something to be considered this one time. To me- if you aren't into SWA and it's just a job and paycheck- there's no reason to not consider the legacies

 

[redflyer65]

Some people aspire for something quite different.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Something different like...

Being number 5 behind 4 RJ's for departure? or..

recently touting growth that...upon closer inspection is RJ growth?

Give me a break.

And your telling Howard to 'let it happen'. WTF does that mean? If it's good for your individual situation, I say 'all the best'. Does that mean I'm going to let it happen? You're such an idiot.

General,

Have you been harboring all this SW anger since 9/11, or Sept 2005 (the date that the all mighty Delta filed for bankruptcy and gutted your airline)?
I suspect it's a combination of both.

 

[General Lee]

Something different like...

Being number 5 behind 4 RJ's for departure? or..

recently touting growth that...upon closer inspection is RJ growth?

Give me a break.

And your telling Howard to 'let it happen'. WTF does that mean? If it's good for your individual situation, I say 'all the best'. Does that mean I'm going to let it happen? You're such an idiot.

General,

Have you been harboring all this SW anger since 9/11, or Sept 2005 (the date that the all mighty Delta filed for bankruptcy and gutted your airline)?
I suspect it's a combination of both.

Red,

You never back up your assertions with facts. Have you not been number 5 behind 4 RJs at LGA? Were they all DL RJs? Could SWA 737s profitably do LGA to Elmira? Some city pairs can't make money, notice your airline cut 17 former AT cities.

RJ Growth. Hmmmmm. At DL? Maybe you missed it, but DL RJs are bring parked at a larger rate than being added. 215 50 seaters will be parked, and 70 70/76 seaters added. That means a DEFICIT of RJs. Not growth, a decline. DL mainline is ADDING mainline planes, including 88 717s that you are paying to convert. Didn't you know that????

Instead of being so defensive Red, you and Howie just have to accept that there very well may be an exodus from your airline. Now, that may shatter your image of how great your airline is, but it's all about what THOSE guys want. If they don't want stagnation, they may consider leaving. Don't get so emotional. Keep your emotions in check, and just know that some people just want something they might not be able to get at your airline, including Long Haul INTL travel, longer than 25 min turns, something to fly other than one plane the rest of their careers, and a cool uniform chicks "dig." Just chillax, and go with the flow. Enjoy your 6 leg day to STL, and I'll enjoy Rome (Italy). Ciao!!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Instead of being so defensive Red, you and Howie just have to accept that there very well may be an exodus from your airline. Now, that may shatter your image of how great your airline is, but it's all about what THOSE guys want. If they don't want stagnation, they may consider leaving. Don't get so emotional. Keep your emotions in check, and just know that some people just want something they might not be able to get at your airline, including Long Haul INTL travel, longer than 25 min turns, something to fly other than one plane the rest of their careers, and a cool uniform chicks "dig." Just chillax, and go with the flow. Enjoy your 6 leg day to STL, and I'll enjoy Rome (Italy). Ciao!!



Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

You really must have failed reading comprehension. I don't really care what people decide to do....so your whole argument is worth jack squat to me. If it's better for them to go to DL or AA, then have at it. It's a personal choice that doesn't really revolve around ELP. Sorry to break that to you. I agree that some might want long haul. I think it would be miserable (anything that involves a redeye sucks as far as I'm concerned) But to each their own. I'm glad your happy.

Same thing with the ego of upgrading. I could care less as long as I'm a senior FO. When I get there, I'll make more than the CA and have more does off along with every holiday. That's my expectation. It may not be yours, and that's cool.

Any day of the week in either DTW, ATL, or SLC you can be behind 3-4 RJs General. It's embarrassing for the mainline guys, and I get that. DALPA should have never allowed it in the first place. Over 800 RJs? How many millions in mainline jobs lost? Most likely billions with a B.

It's funny how you mention the 25 min turn like it's a bad thing. I love it. I like to be efficient while at work. Making the most while I'm on the road. Why would I want to have 1.5hrs of ground time in a hub like Delta?



Your 4 day that pays 20 would drive me nuts. We do 3 days that pay that....and I'm home by 1pm on day three with NO redeyes. Life is good Gen, no complaints or sore emotions here. Happy Holidays.

RF

 

[General Lee]

General,

You really must have failed reading comprehension. I don't really care what people decide to do....so your whole argument is worth jack squat to me. If it's better for them to go to DL or AA, then have at it. It's a personal choice that doesn't really revolve around ELP. Sorry to break that to you. I agree that some might want long haul. I think it would be miserable (anything that involves a redeye sucks as far as I'm concerned) But to each their own. I'm glad your happy.

Same thing with the ego of upgrading. I could care less as long as I'm a senior FO. When I get there, I'll make more than the CA and have more does off along with every holiday. That's my expectation. It may not be yours, and that's cool.

It's funny how you mention the 25 min turn like it's a bad thing. I love it. I like to be efficient while at work. Making the most while I'm on the road. Why would I want to have 1.5hrs of ground time in a hub like Delta?

Your 4 day that pays 20 would drive me nuts. We do 3 days that pay that....and I'm home by 1pm on day three with NO redeyes. Life is good Gen, no complaints or sore emotions here. Happy Holidays.

RF

Thanks Red, Happy Holidays to you too. Not all 4 days are 20 hours, and not all trips have 1.5 hour sits. That's what is great about a legacy, variety. You can do one day turns up to 12 day trips. You can see the World, or just see Florida. Variety is the spice of life. Goodnight Red.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

You really have nothing to lose if you get on at the beginning of a large hiring wave.

Nothing to lose? You really are not a student of this industry. The OP is currently sitting on a list with more than a thousand pilots below him and protected from a furlough unless SWA reduces its workforce by way more than 10% of the seniority list! Far from nothing to lose.

 

[General Lee]

Nothing to lose? You really are not a student of this industry. The OP is currently sitting on a list with more than a thousand pilots below him and protected from a furlough unless SWA reduces its workforce by way more than 10% of the seniority list! Far from nothing to lose.

Ohhhh Howie. Watch out! Mars will Attack! Look, all 3 big legacies will lose 5,000 pilots each in 10 years. Getting on early in a hiring wave will give plenty of protection. There will be retirements, tons of them.

Your airline is facing stagnation, and anyone in the bottom third is probably considering a change. The earlier the better, and I'm sure the type rating guys around Dallas wouldn't mind, think how many people would buy types for future jobs with you guys! Fantastic!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Nothing to lose? You really are not a student of this industry. The OP is currently sitting on a list with more than a thousand pilots below him and protected from a furlough unless SWA reduces its workforce by way more than 10% of the seniority list! Far from nothing to lose.

That's a good point, and it should be weighed carefully-

That said there IS opportunity elsewhere that's real. Timing is everything and every TIME is different and evaluated as such.

I do NOT understand the need to defend the southwest career or convince those who truly don't need and want to be here to stay.

 

[pave driver]

Ohhhh Howie. Watch out! Mars will Attack! Look, all 3 big legacies will lose 5,000 pilots each in 10 years. Getting on early in a hiring wave will give plenty of protection. There will be retirements, tons of them.

Your airline is facing stagnation, and anyone in the bottom third is probably considering a change. The earlier the better, and I'm sure the type rating guys around Dallas wouldn't mind, think how many people would buy types for future jobs with you guys! Fantastic!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why do you try so hard to convince others of the differences of flying for a legacy with a discount airline? We all know there is no comparison. Of those who have not flown for a legacy, they will never know so stop trying so hard to compare apples and oranges.

 

[pave driver]

For the OP - Go to AA now if you can. If you communte, don't commute or like or dislike where you are at SWA - does not matter. You WILL kick yourself down the road if you don't. No brainer.

 

[General Lee]

Why do you try so hard to convince others of the differences of flying for a legacy with a discount airline? We all know there is no comparison. Of those who have not flown for a legacy, they will never know so stop trying so hard to compare apples and oranges.

I don't mind explaining the differences, plus I'm hoping to get my own advice section on this board entitled "Ask General Lee." It would cover subjects like hiring advice, relationship advice, home and auto repair, nutrition, geography questions for Corndogs (anywhere outside contiguous 48), and grooming advice (manscaping). I hope the owner gives me thumbs up! This site may become more popular than You Tube!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Why do you try so hard to convince others of the differences of flying for a legacy with a discount airline? We all know there is no comparison. Of those who have not flown for a legacy, they will never know so stop trying so hard to compare apples and oranges.

Well said.

Or at least it's been said.

After that it comes down to fit and personality, not just endless repeat of the same tired stuff and assumptions on both sides.
The thing that sucks in our career on a seniority list, you can't check companies out like other careers-
But pave's right- one can guess but unless you've done both over a long time- you don't know
I have, and hope that pre 9/11 contracts come back-
Hub and spoke is a good life with good work rules and rigs-
Not so great without. Just like SWA or anywhere most of your culture comes from how we treat each other as crew.

You really do have to live it though and we all actually will find out if we made te right choices when we die. Try aren't just axioms

 

[pave driver]

I don't mind explaining the differences, plus I'm hoping to get my own advice section on this board entitled "Ask General Lee." It would cover subjects like hiring advice, relationship advice, home and auto repair, nutrition, geography questions for Corndogs (anywhere outside contiguous 48), and grooming advice (manscaping). I hope the owner gives me thumbs up! I'll even do it for free, just like the ASA pilots and their new TA....


Bye Bye---General Lee

I believe that is a great idea and would be a good service for you to provide. There is a lot of misinformation. Just the other day I had an FO at Expressjet say he is most likely better off staying than coming to my company AA. I was speachless and wished him good luck.

 

[Ty Webb]

I believe that is a great idea and would be a good service for you to provide. There is a lot of misinformation. Just the other day I had an FO at Expressjet say he is most likely better off staying than coming to my company AA. I was speachless and wished him good luck.

Let me guess . . . . He figured that, after he Upgrades, it would "be a lateral move".

I have to laugh . . . I used to hear guys at ASA say the same thing about AirTran. . . . Yeah . . . pretty "lateral", except that I fly around 600 hrs a year, get paid for 1,000, while they fly 1,000 and get paid for 600. Other than that, it's pretty "lateral". :laugh:


They're just parroting what they hear from the crusties in the left seat who are explaining to them why they never left.

 

[scoreboardII]

On the good side, SWa is continuing to interview and it looks like they are on track to hire 400, interviews going on this very moment. Unfortunately, do to the compressed class start schedules, as in one starting next week, they are only interviewing those with a type. And yes, so far about 1-2 in ten when called are declining the offer for employment.

 

[waveflyer]

I believe that is a great idea and would be a good service for you to provide. There is a lot of misinformation. Just the other day I had an FO at Expressjet say he is most likely better off staying than coming to my company AA. I was speachless and wished him good luck.

That's bananas

You were like I'd be.

And Ty? Lateral? Really?
I'd probably hand them a dictionary.com definition of lateral

 

[FurloughedAgain]

On the good side, SWa is continuing to interview and it looks like they are on track to hire 400, interviews going on this very moment. Unfortunately, do to the compressed class start schedules, as in one starting next week, they are only interviewing those with a type. And yes, so far about 1-2 in ten when called are declining the offer for employment.

Is that 400 number new? I heard 250. I was also told that there are October interviewees still awaiting a classdate. So the timeline between interview and class may be a few months (albeit perhaps not quick enough to earn a type)

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Well they cut a transition class in February for AirTran guys going over so maybe it is for new hires.

 

[Crash Pad]

LUV got some LGA slots. HOU international terminal, Fingures crossed on DCA.

I have been using zero growth on myseniority, might be time to change that. 18 year upgrade here I come!

To all that want to leave SWA, if you need help updating logbooks, filling out online Apps, etc. PM me I would like to help you leave. I think SWAPA should start a leave SWA fund that pays for application fees, interview prep, interview ground school etc. it would be the greatest service we can do for the entire membership.