Leave CAL for SWA?

[XLR8]

Interviewed last July with SWA, got the letter. Started with CAL in November. Question is, do I re-interview for the job I really wanted (with SWA) or do I hang out at CAL.

I don't want to get my buddy in trouble at CAL for recommending me and then me leaving after a year. Upgrades look quick at CAL and they are hiring strong. Don't have any desire to live in the bases that CAL has, but I could live in many of the SWA bases. SWA has great people, great places to live, great $$$, but then again, so did United. Sounds like growth is slowing down at SWA though.

Comments?

 

[AlbieF15]

Interview. Take rate at SWA is less than 50%...so don't get ahead of yourself. Once you get the offer--THEN make your decision.

Pray--and pay attention to the trips you are flying right now. Are you happy at CAL? Backlog now for classes at SWA is through Sep....which means you probably would not get to SWA until you were on year 2 at CAL. What happens when if the train stops?

No right answer--but bailing on CAL at 12-18 months to start over might be a tough leap. Just take a look WHEN you have to make the choice. You don't have to do that until you give CAL two weeks notice or tell SWA "no thanks" on their class date. If you are still "waffling", you could likely even postpone the SWA class a month or two while you pondered....

Good luck...

 

[RedDogC130]

Do you have another interview with SWA? OR are you hoping for another?

If you do have the interview scheduled and it is you 2nd time, you chances go up to around 70-75% for getting the job.

 

[Daddy]

A few things to consider....if CAL merges with someone, where would that put you? Also, SWA growth is slowing and we are in negotiations...I don't think it will be pretty given that we are the first labor group of many coming up for a new contract and scope, codeshare, mergers, etc need to be worked out....where would that put you in a year or so? Either way, if you had the choice to go with the airline that keeps you from having to commute for the rest of your career, I'd roll the dice and go with that one...good luck

 

[SteelerMan]

You answered your own question, you really want to work for SWA so keep trying. You will make 60+ year one and 90+ year two at SWA so you wont be behind financially. Leaving a job is your decision and you should never feel bad about it. It is nice to have choices.

 

[SWA/FO]

Question is, do I re-interview for the job I really wanted

I don't know guys...he said "wanted".

 

[SWA GUY]

Growth is slowing...

Yep, it is. From 12% all the way down to 10%. OMG!!!!!

That figure is from Mike Van de Ven on June 13th.

 

[ToThePain]

You answered your own question, you really want to work for SWA so keep trying. You will make 60+ year one and 90+ year two at SWA so you wont be behind financially. Leaving a job is your decision and you should never feel bad about it. It is nice to have choices.

I agree that it is nice to have a choice. I put in applications to CAL, SWA, and Jet Blue. The 3 guys who pushed my application at CAL all walked it into the chief pilots office wich seems to be a requirement to get hired at CAL. Jet Blue called me a week before training at CAL started for an interview and SWA called me up while I was in training with CAL and I VERY politely told them thankyou but I was in training with another airline and didn't think it would be ethical to the people who made the effort to get me hired to walk away. Both HR people told me thankyou for your honesty and if I was interested in another interview just update my resumee.
The point to this is that IF you made a commitment to your buddy(buddies) that pushed for you to get hired at CAL and then you leave you are making them look bad. You have basically said that its nice to have a job for a few months, get a free type rating and then move on to what you perceive are better pastures.

Aside from the above ALBIE also makes a great point. It would be a difficult jump at the 12-14 month point. CAL is in for a new contract and has had 6 quarters of profit. Our contarct (which is not good) can go no where but up. There are also many more options at this point at CAL. I just finished year 1 at CAL and am on the B777 making 73.01 pay sitting at home on reserve with the average trip coming once per month. I personally believe (and I may be wrong) that SWA younger pilots will be hurt more than a lot of the legacies when the age 60 is changed to 65. (maybe because they have enjoyed their career more and haven't been $%^& by management having lost their A funds and such). As it stands now my friend that just got hired by SWA (2007) is looking at a 10 year wait to upgrade to the left seat, there are 2005 hires at CAL that will upgrade with CAL on our next bid in August. I also think that the retirement plan at CAL is better than the one at SWA. CAL is putting 12.75% away for you into Schwabb which you control while SWA is at around 7.3% and thats only if you match. They are both good companies and will continue to do well and everyone I know at SWA loves it there. CAL is improving and with more younger guys coming in it will only get better.

 

[SWA GUY]

To the pain,

CAL is a strong company? In order to get in the black CAL sold Copa and Expressjet. Operationally CAL has been in the red for a long time.

Upgrade at SWA is currently 6 years 3 months.

I'd leave CAL for SWA after 5 years, here's why: QOL, money, management.

'Nuff said.

 

[zonker]

CAL has been in the red operationally for a long time?

:laugh:

The crap that comes out of peoples keyboards...

 

[ERJFO]

Seriously CAL is owned by it's lendors right now. It has the lowest amount of cash of any legcy airline and has the highest amout of debt. Sweet you have orders for more airplanes, did you realize your going to be selling the computers and airplane models in the training center if the cost of fuel goes up?

 

[zonker]

Seriously CAL is owned by it's lendors right now. It has the lowest amount of cash of any legcy airline and has the highest amout of debt. Sweet you have orders for more airplanes, did you realize your going to be selling the computers and airplane models in the training center if the cost of fuel goes up?

Take a peek at a few balance sheets sometime. You'll discover that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[thor2j]

To the pain,

CAL is a strong company? In order to get in the black CAL sold Copa and Expressjet. Operationally CAL has been in the red for a long time.

Upgrade at SWA is currently 6 years 3 months.

I'd leave CAL for SWA after 5 years, here's why: QOL, money, management.

'Nuff said.

Once again your hourly pay is definetly better, but when u factor in 13% rertirement and SWA has none a 25 yr career is with in $90,000.

 

[capt. megadeth]

If you do have the interview scheduled and it is you 2nd time, you chances go up to around 70-75% for getting the job.

Does anyone know the PD's thought process with this?

 

[SteelerMan]

To the Pain,

It would be one thing if you went to Cal with an offer already on the table from swa, got the type and left, then a bit shady, and I know that has happened. But to leave a job a year after you were hired when a better opportunity (if in your own opinion it is) arises is in no way shady or making your buddies look bad.

 

[johnsonrod]

You will want to go where you will be most happy in the long-run. If variety of aircraft and routes (ie international flying on all fleets) are not big factors for you, then maybe SWA is your better bet. Some people don't want to fly a 737 for the next 20-30 years (especially if age 65 comes to fruition). If you do enjoy long layovers in ABQ, TUL and MHT, then go for SWA!

You should do the interview regardless if offered - you don't have much to lose by at least seeing how you do. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[RedDogC130]

Does anyone know the PD's thought process with this?

Are you asking why the percentage is higher the second time around versus the first and why they would take someone the second time and not the first? I am a little slow so mabye that was what you were saying.

 

[RedDogC130]

Some people don't want to fly a 737 for the next 20-30 years (especially if age 65 comes to fruition). If you do enjoy long layovers in ABQ, TUL and MHT, then go for SWA!

.

Both statements are a little wrong. SWA will have another airframe other than the 737. It is a fact. The 737 will not be around forever. The long layovers are not just in ABQ, TUL, and MHT....We have Lubbock...however you spell it, I have never been there. We have OMA, BOI, a few more hotspots.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

Are you serious? CAL or Southwest? Hmm, tough one!

CAL is broke and has actual crap streaming down the aisles of the flights cause there is no money to fix stuff apparently.

Southwest is a great profitable company. I would take the luv anyday over the crap.

 

[SWA/FO]

Once again your hourly pay is definetly better, but when u factor in 13% rertirement and SWA has none a 25 yr career is with in $90,000.

What?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Are you asking why the percentage is higher the second time around versus the first and why they would take someone the second time and not the first? I am a little slow so mabye that was what you were saying.

Yes......

 

[RedDogC130]

It makes me wonder too. It took me 2 times to get the job. Who knows. I had some added experiences the second time than the first with different aircraft....no PIC increase but different experience. Changed my haircut.....yeah that is what it was.

 

[Ex737Driver]

To the pain,

CAL is a strong company? In order to get in the black CAL sold Copa and Expressjet. Operationally CAL has been in the red for a long time.

Upgrade at SWA is currently 6 years 3 months.

I'd leave CAL for SWA after 5 years, here's why: QOL, money, management.

'Nuff said.

That's it. I'm leaving too.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Are you serious? CAL or Southwest? Hmm, tough one!

CAL is broke and has actual crap streaming down the aisles of the flights cause there is no money to fix stuff apparently.

Southwest is a great profitable company. I would take the luv anyday over the crap.

Gay, f'ing gay ass homo. Can't say gay enough about this fag.

 

[jbDC9]

Are you serious? CAL or Southwest? Hmm, tough one!

CAL is broke and has actual crap streaming down the aisles of the flights cause there is no money to fix stuff apparently.

Southwest is a great profitable company. I would take the luv anyday over the crap.

Talk about streaming crap... here comes Pocono to rag on CAL again. How about you shut the fukc up already and give it a rest. I wonder, if she'd made it through the interview, would she still be spewing her b/s towards CAL?

Idiot.

 

[PCL_128]

CAL is a strong company? In order to get in the black CAL sold Copa and Expressjet. Operationally CAL has been in the red for a long time.

Take a look at CAL's balance sheet. CAL had an operational cashflow of $980 million for the last 12 months. It was over $600 million for the 2006 fiscal year. They have well over $2 billion in cash reserves. CAL is doing just fine, as are most of the legacies now.

I'd leave CAL for SWA after 5 years, here's why: QOL, money, management.

QOL? Maybe. Depends on what you consider most important in QOL. Some guys want to fly trips to Europe someday on a widebody. Won't happen at SWA, most likely. Some guys want to bid 777 reserve and only fly 3 days a month. Again, won't happen at SWA. Each situation is different.

Money? I'm not so sure that SWA comes ahead there either. With upgrades at CAL running at less than 3 years and with a likely raise coming with a new TA in a few years, I doubt pay at SWA would keep up.

The only slam-dunk for SWA is management. You guys have the best management-labor relationship by far. Of course, 15 years from now that could be different. You never know. I just can't imagine giving up a seniority number at CAL with less than three years to the left seat to go anywhere else. Even SWA could be vulnerable to furloughs if another 9/11 happens. Better to have that extra year of seniority behind you.

 

[Captain Overs]

Take a peek at a few balance sheets sometime. You'll discover that you have no idea what you're talking about.

CAL's balance sheet only looks that good because they made it off the back of the pilots and Fa's with concessions. Enjoy your "great" company at less than 1997 rates!

 

[Palomino]

CAL's balance sheet only looks that good because they made it off the back of the pilots and Fa's with concessions. Enjoy your "great" company at less than 1997 rates!

a message to Express guys that were turned down by CAL: GET OVER IT!
i applaud the company for filtering out the fools.

btw: it's $3 billion in cash reserves for CAL. and yes...we know where a big chunk of it comes from. the pilots who signed the company a huge loan are retiring in droves. payday is coming soon for the rest of us.

 

[AlbieF15]

Anyone banking on a 5 year upgrade at SWA right now is hopeful at best. It is a GREAT company. Lots of nice folks... But age 60/65 is going to put a dent in a lot of upgrades...likely at both companies. I don't think anyone really knows when or what to expect on future upgrades.

 

[XLR8]

Hey Guys (and Gals)

Thanks for all the responses and insight. Yes, SWA is the place I've wanted to work since I was in high school....I feel like I want to shoot for my dream job at least one more time. I don't feel like CAL gave me a type rating because I was one of "those guys" who paid for it before I got to CAL (but lets not start another one of those threads).

Flying internationally doesn't appeal to me at all...but being home with more days off, great people, and a little more $$ sounds pretty good. That being said, I'm fairly young (28) and maybe 30 years from now I would want to do international stuff (but then again, maybe SWA will be doing that then).

One thing I worry about is my buddy at CAL that helped me get the job...but I also worry if I interview at SWA and have the 6-7 people there that I know write me letters...I don't want them to get any heat for me interivewing and then not accepting the job (if I got offered one that is).

I guess I need to get a second interview call before I need to worry about anything....but just wanted to get thoughts from others.