Learjet Questions

[Palerider957]

Hello all:

We just began an ernest search for a Lear 35/A. I have several questions, and I hope you folks can help:

1) What is the diff. between a Lear 35 and 35A?
2) I've heard we need the "big three", and I guess that's TR's, MSP, and a big door. Any other must haves?
4) Can you fill this thing up and go SRQ/TEB? How bad is the baggage space?
5) What are the approx. performance #'s and reasonable profiles (range/Alt/Mach).
6) What are the major inspection intervals? I've heard of the 12yr, I beleive there is a 5yr as well. What are the real killers for inspections and how often?
7) How are the general handling characteristics?

Any other info. and wisdom (pros/cons) are most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rick1128]

Hello all:

We just began an ernest search for a Lear 35/A. I have several questions, and I hope you folks can help:

1) What is the diff. between a Lear 35 and 35A?
2) I've heard we need the "big three", and I guess that's TR's, MSP, and a big door. Any other must haves?
4) Can you fill this thing up and go SRQ/TEB? How bad is the baggage space?
5) What are the approx. performance #'s and reasonable profiles (range/Alt/Mach).
6) What are the major inspection intervals? I've heard of the 12yr, I beleive there is a 5yr as well. What are the real killers for inspections and how often?
7) How are the general handling characteristics?

Any other info. and wisdom (pros/cons) are most welcome.


The prime differences between teh 35 and the 35A is the upgrade in GW from 17K to 18.3 plus the improved pressurization system. There were also upgrades in the electrical system and A/P also. There are AMK and AKK kits that upgrade the aircraft to the newer standards. You will have to check the aircraft logbooks to see which kits it has. I have only seen one 35 that didn't have the higher gross weight.

MSP and the 36 inch door are high value items. Personally I don't consider TR important in the Lear. Especially the Aeronca TR's. A majorit of my time in the Lears have been without TR's all through North America, in all kinds of weather conditions. And I have not missed them. The Aeroncas have a troubled maintenance history. Some will tell you different, but they either don't have a great deal of experience with them or have been very lucky.

You want a good GPS or FMS. Since most of the 35s I have dealt with have either GNS's or UNS-1's You might be better off with a good GPS instead. The GNS and UNS-1's are going to have upgrade problems in the near future witht eh upgrades in airspace that will happen in the near future here in the US. Delta Fins are also a good improvement to consider. Personally I prefer the softflite wing.

SRQ to TEB is not a problem. I regularly do JFK to Souix Falls nonstop. 5 to 6 pax. The baggage space is a bear. If your folks like to travel heavy, it will be a problem. The biggest problem is packing it. Best bet is to put all the baggage by the door and pick and choice bags to maximize space.

Range is really about 1800 NM. Depending on the wing your best climb profile is 250 to .72M. Normal cruise is .74 to .76. Pushing it higher than that will only burn more fuel adn shorten the range. Inital altitudes depend on weight and temperature. Usually upper 30 initially. Cool and/or light 410 is not a problem.

Inspections come down to:

150 hr engine
300hr/ 6 mos
600hr/12 mos
1200 hr/ 48 mos
2400 hr
12 year
12,000 hr
20,000 hr
12,000 cycle MLG

For most corporate operators the 12 year can be a problem. The major problems are corrosion and windshield cracks. There are usually frame cracks found also. Corrosion is usually not a problem during the 12 year especially if the aircraft spent most of its life in a reasonably dry climate. During the 12,000 hour inspection they must de-mate the wing from the fuselage.

The 35 flies much nicer than the earlier 20's. Most of the scare stories relate to the 20's. Don't let them scare you in this regard. You will actually like the aircraft.

For flight planning I use 1800 lbs for the first hour, 1500 the second hour, 1300 pounds the third and 1200 each following hour. These numbers are quite conservative and work well. You will always have a little extra fuel.

Don't skimp on your initial training, especially if you don't have any previous jet experience. Flight Safety or Simuflite is the only way. I have used Simcom and have not been impressed. I prefer FSI Wichita as they folks there are totally Lear 20/35 oriented.

Good luck

 

[some_dude]

I'll second pretty much everything Rick said.

I wouldn't rule out the small ("Executive") door. Yes, it's worth less when you go to sell it, but you should pay less when you buy it. Assuming you are not doing air ambulance or serious cargo, I've never had an issue getting people or stuff through the small door, and I've even done air ambulance with it (but I admit that loading a stretcher through the small door sucks).

The small door gives you a bit more room in the cabin as well, depending on your interior configuration.

On training, I have had very good luck with FSI Tucson. They have some excellent instructors there.

One thing about Learjets is that they are all different. There are so many AMKs and AAKs that you really need to do an analysis and understand what your specific airplane has.

The worst thing about the baggage is having to load it through the cabin. You can actually carry quite a bit-- it's bigger than it looks.

Another nice thing about the 35 is that you can usually fill the seats and the tanks and be under gross weight.

They are great airplanes, though! One of my favorites to fly and operate.

 

[Palerider957]

Fantastic, thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[LJDRVR]

Excellent responses from Rick and Dude.

I spent a lot of time training with the SF folks in DFW, excellent instructors, and the simulator flies just like the jet.

The lower the serial number, the more modifications that will have been done to the airplane. (By folks other than the factory) You'll also spend more on MX and pull out the QRH more often.

There are several excellent Learjet mechanics around, I always liked Danny Brown at Westar in Colorado. More than any other jet out there, your pre-buy mechanic had better know his stuff with 35's.

If you're not doing cargo or air ambulance, don't let the narrow door stand in the way of a good airframe. You can do air ambulance with the narrow door, just no pediatric isolet, and you'll tear up your interior even faster.

Pilot wish list:

IPECO seats (Don't buy a jet without them! [see my avatar])
FC-530 autopilot
Dee Howard T/R's
Second standby battery
Lead Acid batteries
Softflite wing
Avcon fins
Standby pump lights
Newer FMS
Drag Chute (I never used it but nice to know it's there.)
DEECs
Flap preselect
510 pressurization (Bleed air switches, and no action on your part for EMER PRESS)
Bezel with plastic bugs on BOTH ASI's
Chemical toilet

Many of these features will only be found on the newer airplanes. (400+)
Something like this:

http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=1062531&guid=C0800B09FC794A329DF7A8144481816D

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with this airplane, I just thought it represented a nice example of of a newer Lear

Great flying airplane! Not as challenging as some folks would have you believe. Just be very careful with the fuel system, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble, very quickly. Know it well, anounce everything you're doing to it, and insist the other guy/gal checks you when your done. After you're done with initial, have Bob Agostino at Learjet send you one of his folks to fly with for a few weeks. Worth every penny.