Lear Jet Question

[MD80DRVR]

Is the Lear 25 and 35 a common type rating?? Thanks.

 

[justApilot]

yes....that type is good for the 20 somethings, 30 somethings and the 55.

 

[MD80DRVR]

I'm getting a type rating through the WIA (Workforce Investment Act) because I'm furloughed. Is there a lot of work for Lear pilots out there? If not what type rating would you suggest. Thanks again.

 

[banned username 2]

Is the Lear 25 and 35 a common type rating?? Thanks.

YES, the "LR-JET" Type Rating covers the following models:

Lear 23, 24, 25, 28, 29
Lear 31/31a, 35/35a, 36/36a
Lear 55/55b/55c

The Lear 45 and Lear 60 are their own separate Type Ratings. (LR-45 & LR-60 respectively)

 

[flyboycpa]

.

 

[slickmagneto]

md80drvr

What company are you using to get the type?
Which state is issuing the WIA funds?
How much are they funding?
Thanks

 

[Timebuilder]

Is there a lot of work for Lear pilots out there?

Yep.

Also, a guy I know who has flown a bunch of different jets told me that if you can fly a Lear, you can do well in almost any jet.

It will be interesting for me to try and find out if that's true.

 

[banned username 2]

Yep.

Also, a guy I know who has flown a bunch of different jets told me that if you can fly a Lear, you can do well in almost any jet.

It will be interesting for me to try and find out if that's true.

Timebuilder,

Trust me, you'll be happy the Lear was your first jet... Makes flying everything else easy... (not necessarily from systems point of view, but from a stick and rudder point of view)

 

[Rick1128]

difficult?

I would qaulify that a little bit. If you can fly a 20 series, every other jet becomes easy. A 31 is really quite docile. A 20 you have to think further ahead and the controls are crisper. Especially the 23 and 24.

As for the systems, if you understand the logic behind them they are actually simple. But then again they were designed in the day when the major airlines still operated DC6's. Compared with aircraft designed today, they are a little more difficult to use.

 

[flyboycpa]

.

 

[LR25]

Yes, people go out of pistons to LR 20 series all the time, but you cant let them touch the yoke with PAX for about 3 months or so.

But, if you fly the airplane by the numbers, you cant go wrong. If you try to out fly the airplane and your not ready for it, it will bite you.

Its quit a machine the 20 series, I sure miss it.

I have a question, who on here is RVSMing there 20 series?

 

[beytzim]

To give you an idea of the 'fearjet' gotchas:

1. For a -24, if you climb per the book ar .7m to altitude, you will probably flame out one of the engines. Climb near Mmo baby!

2. If you use EngSync in cruise and forget to turn it off during descent. Yep, you guessed, flame out baby!

Wierd sh&t, like on -23, taking off with parking brake on can happen.....having only one fuel flow gauge (not left and right), so if you're used to using fuel flows....forget about it.....but of course, fuel is not a problem for the lears, right! If you're flying the northeast, keep sharp, cause ATC is gonna screw you and next you know, you're on min fuel...so I've heard (of course the joke is you're on min fuel right after take off....)

I've always thought landing the 20 series is like a taildragger.... you ain't finished the landing till you're off the runway. They can get pretty squirly....the lear 35,55 are a breeze in comparison.

 

[flyboycpa]

.

 

[learjetguy]

Drama???

Not trying to flame anybody but It has been my experience that the only people that make statements like "people go from pistons to Lears all the time" have PROBABLY never flown a 20 series Lear (this does not apply to those of you who have previous jet time). Like I said once before, not trying to flame anybody but when I got my type on the 737 it was a piece of cake not because Im some great stick but because of my experience flying Lears. Then again, thats JMHO.

Learguy

 

[Aspiring to be]

Just wanted to add my two cents worth. I worked for an operator that had 24, 25 and 35 model Lears. The Lear 24 was my favorite to play with a little. It was the hottest thing I have ever flown. I use to peg out the rate of climb (6000 fpm) and hold that rate for awhile. I have had ATC to ask me my climb rate and I replied that I did not know as it was pegged out. I have climbed to 41000 in 8.5 minutes on a summer day. It would descend at a very good rate also. The 35 had a higher flt idle and really took more planning for descent.

When I started flying Lears I came out of a wide body and had not flown a small aircraft in years. The old saying that you could tell a new Lear pilot by the way he taxies is a correct statement. Gave me fits even in sim training. The controls were very light and coming from a Mack truck to a sport car took a little time to adjust to. By the second period in the sim I was able to keep you from bouncing off of the ceiling. Flying the airplane was a real pleasure. Not so sure I could say that the 24 was any more difficult than the others from a control view point. The fuel burn was a concern and when I was told that idle fuel burn was about the same as fuel burn at 43000 I said yea sure. I found out it was not far from the truth. If in one of the early models you are interested in getting to altitude as quickly as possible. Plan on 41000 and have ATC hold you down to 25000 and watch yourself squirm. Lower altitudes you really blow it out of the tail pipes.

I did have several FO to really fly badly but I thought it was them and not the airplane. Could be that I was wrong but I found no problem in flying the Lear.

Not sure it would be the best but Pan Am is about the cheapest for a new type.

 

[LearDriver]

STC

I was sure hoping to get a "NEW" autopilot out of the RVSM STC. Guess I'll keep hand flyin...lol....

 

[sf260pilot]

Lear Jet Type

The Simuflite Lear Jet instructors told our class that the most challenging airplane at Simuflite to get an initial jet type rating in is the 20 series (their Sim is the 25). If it is all you know then you can't compare it to anything. Starting in the 24/25 will make you an excellent Lear pilot in any model; even the 60 (another type rating). This was told to me be Dee Howard test pilots who flew all of the early Lear Jets. The airplane is a lot of fun to fly and you can almost always find jobs to fly cargo for the Ameristars and Cherry Airs out there. Good Luck and remember, with a straight pipe lear jet, you go fuel critical as soon as you start the second engine.

 

[Rick1128]

Yes there have been pilots who transitioned from pistons and king airs into the left seat of a Lear 20. It is interesting to sit in on their first recurrent. There are some interesting stories. Most insurance companies want to see some Lear experience before becoming PIC.

In the 20's if you fly fuel flow rather than speed, you do much better. As for flaming out, the engine sync or speed has little to do with it. usually it is caused by a FCU misadjustment. Many operators do not know or are unwilling to do the required maintenance check called a burst test after they change a FCU or engine. The Mark II wings' recommended climb speed is .70m. However, above FL350 it does climb worth a ****. It does much better above .74m.

Going from a 35/36 to a 20 is not too bad. Just have to get use to the fuel burns. But a 31 going to a 23/24 with no experience in the 20's will make for some interesting times.

As for taxiing on one engine, if you planned the fuel that tight in the first place, you probably shouldn't be doing that leg. Also some of the early aircraft have steering that really doesn't like working when taxiing at high weights on one engine.

Personally, I believe that RVSM for the 20's is a crap shoot. Until it gets certified, you don't know if it will happen or not. Also the price will not be firm until it is certified and the after the first half dozen or so roll out the door. The early aircraft, I have been told will most likely need a new autopilot. Time will tell. But most operators who are buying 20's right now are treating them like throw-aways. If RVSM haopens Great. If not, the aircraft paid for itself.

 

[Timebuilder]

I was sure hoping to get a "NEW" autopilot out of the RVSM STC. Guess I'll keep hand flyin...lol....

Not long ago, I asked a mechanic why all those FC-200 AP's hadn't been upgraded to the 530 model. When he stoped laughing, he said I could buy a 20 series plane for the cost of an FC 530! I'll be the replacement of the 20 series AP would be similarly expensive, taking the cost of the STC into the stratosphere. I guess we'll have to see what happens, eh?

 

[Rick1128]

There is already an STC for a digitial a/p for the Lear. So the proving will be minimual. The biggest problem with the FC110 A/P's is that they will not accept digitial signals. The later ones seem to work with converters, but the early ones don't do so well. The FC200 while analog does work with a converter. I know of at least two 35's that have been RVSM approved with the FC200.

And according to the RVSM material I have read, the installed A/P must meet paramiters.

 

[Timebuilder]

We just had a 35 go through the RVSM gauntlet last year. It took a while.

The STC for the 20 series might keep a lot of planes flying. Now, about the noise abatement problem...

 

[Rick1128]

RVSM

RVSM is still a crap shoot for the 20's. Until it is approved I wouldn't count on it. There are a lot of operators who are counting on it getting approved. And even if it is approved, it will depend on how much it costs. If it is too high we'll see very few 20's flying in the future. The quotes out there right now are $150K to $175K. But remember they original quotes for the G2 were running $250K to $300K. Some have been as much as $750K. In my opinion, if the RVSM stc goes much above $250K to $300K we will not see too many 20's flying.

There are way to many issues to handle. The autopilot, 2nd Flight Data Computuer, Pitot/Static system, altimitry, etc.

As for hush kits, there is a kit out there by Bizjet. Seems to work, but you lose the T/Rs. They have not sold too many of them.

 

[slickmagneto]

NEW MOTORS

Don't forget about the Williams engine conversion for the 20 series that is currently in testing.

 

[Rick1128]

Williams

Looks like it has possibilities. But the price is like $1.2 million. They have not and will not sell too many of these conversions. Cause you are now well into the Lear 35 price range. As a general rule, converted aircraft do not hold their values well.

 

[OldTomcat]

Cheapest LR 25/35 type

Where is the cheapest place to get the type rating in the southwest U.S? One of my associates just needs the ticket to start logging PIC time.

Thanks

 

[AviateYou]

Lear Differences and tidbits.

This may sound trivial, the Lear 35 makes you a good stick, but rudder? The yaw damper goes on right after t/o and is disconnected in the flare on landing to avoid adverse dutch roll with fuel in the tip tanks if you get inadvertantly slow due to say windshear. The only time you use rudder is in the Sim or in a crosswind landing. The Lear 25 takes planning, unless you are getting the FJ44 mod (sweet) the CJ610s (same engine as a T-38 with no afterburner) suck fuel faster than you can believe 2200 lbs first hour (don't start down until you ascertain the weather and you are sure you can land) as compared to the Lear 35A which is about uses the TFE 731s is 17OO lbs first hour. Then you have a totally different Avionics package (EFIS) (FMS) in the Lear 31A with it's "Longhorn Wing" that climbs like a homesick angel. And than theres the Lear 55 a fine aircraft really, offering it's midsize cabin with 737-200 runway performance. The point is a type in the 35 will help but make sure you attend a good differences course preferably by Simuflite or Flight Safety or something comparable if you plan on diversifying in one of the other Lears. Hey go down to your favorite pilot shop and read Learjets published by Geza Szurovy. Its a good read!