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Lear 60XL?

Stealthh21

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Just read a thread talking about a Lear 60XL. I can't finnd ANYTHING on the internet in regards to the XL. Anyone have any good info on the airplane? I know they came out with a "special edition" Lear 60 in OCT 2004, but I can't see any real differences in that compared to previous years.

Regards.
 

fly4kix

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I believe they are one in same. the SE is just bombardier's idea of throwing all the available options on the airplane and making it a new edition. I was told that all knew airframes were SE's but I'm not so sure.

There are rumors from ICT that maybe a Lear 70 is in the works. Full double club with 45 style wing and tires/wheels/brakes. I don't know why it would need it but also bigger engines.
 

Stealthh21

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I was just reading on the Bombardier website, I downloaded the info packet for the Special Lear 60 and performance wise is the same as any other Lear 60. A lear 70 is news to me. You 135 or 91?
 

fly4kix

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Yeah, SE is just a loaded airplane. No performance change. The demo and flight test guys said something to me last time I was at the service center there about it. We are 91
 

h25b

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Everyone that has flown both tells me if they would just take the 60 fuselage and mate it with Learjet 45 wings/brake you'd really have an airplane... Thoughts ???
 

Stealthh21

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h25b said:
Everyone that has flown both tells me if they would just take the 60 fuselage and mate it with Learjet 45 wings/brake you'd really have an airplane... Thoughts ???

I have heard that. The 60 does need a better wing, and REALLY needs a new landing gear!!!!!!! The 45 wing is much longer. I dont know much about it though. Any 45 guys cares to comment??
 

miles otoole

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Stealthh21 said:
I have heard that. The 60 does need a better wing, and REALLY needs a new landing gear!!!!!!! The 45 wing is much longer. I dont know much about it though. Any 45 guys cares to comment??

The 60 has the 31 wing-very thin. It needs cop transmission, cop engine, cop brakes, errrr.......bigger brakes and a better wing. The 45 cabin is about 2 feet longer ( I think). 7 seats, but perfect for 4 pax-no mas.
 

fly4kix

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h25b said:
Everyone that has flown both tells me if they would just take the 60 fuselage and mate it with Learjet 45 wings/brake you'd really have an airplane... Thoughts ???


I would agree with that totally. My first thought when I heard about the 70 was they'd have the same problem, big fuse with no wing. My hope is they'll scale up the 45 wing to handle the new airframe. I couldn't get any kind of gross weight or range estimates from the guys in ICT so I'm not real sure what they have in mind there
 

Stealthh21

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fly4kix said:
I would agree with that totally. My first thought when I heard about the 70 was they'd have the same problem, big fuse with no wing. My hope is they'll scale up the 45 wing to handle the new airframe. I couldn't get any kind of gross weight or range estimates from the guys in ICT so I'm not real sure what they have in mind there

I agree. The 60 is a great airplane. With a better wing it really would be incredible! Hope they work up something good out there in ICT!
 

BOZO

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I typed 60XL but I'm wrong...it is 60SE. Hope I didn't get anybody's hopes up too soon for an improved 60. Sure would be nice. Just flew a couple guys today in the 60 that are used to a CJ and they just about wet themselves!!! (No offense to you CJ pilots...wish I could fly one of those and be home more!) The 60 is starting to look like a classic Vette with some of the newer designs rolling out...but I'd be happy flying one for the rest of my life!
 

vixin

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They looked at the 45 wing and putting it on the 60. They also looked at putting the 60 engines on the 45. Cg was the problem for the 60 eng on a 45. I believe they are looking at something like the so called 70 although I was told it would be a 48. They would like to try and keep it on the 45 type.
 

miles otoole

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vixin said:
They looked at the 45 wing and putting it on the 60. They also looked at putting the 60 engines on the 45. Cg was the problem for the 60 eng on a 45. I believe they are looking at something like the so called 70 although I was told it would be a 48. They would like to try and keep it on the 45 type.

I am sure they know not to eat too much into the new 40 and 45 market. It'll have to be at least as big as the 60, but not so big as to eat into the CL 300 market. Should be interesting, nonetheless. I do agree with the old corvette analogy. Just looks FAST.
 

HawkerF/O

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The folks over at Bombardier have really dropped the ball with this airplane. They could have put the Hawker production line out of business with this aircraft, but they have let so many opprotunities slip away. As for the 45, it was not well planned and has too many problems and a terrible reputation in terms of dispatch rate, Bombardier support, and MX problems. The 60 is a great airplane performance wise, but some of the things the Bombardier designers have come up with makes one scratch their head. Taking the brakes and gear off the 55 and slapping them on the 60 without compensating for the extra weight is just 1 foolish example. On the other hand, they have done some good things like putting the overpowered derated P&Ws on the 60 as well as going with the Collins Pro Line 4. If they do come out with a plane to fill the gap between the 60 and CL300, doing the following would make the folks over at the 800XP-C and Soverign production line sweat.

Must Haves:
trailing link gear
upgrade brakes (Carbon Fiber) enough to lower or eliminate energy limitations as well as a tandem nose wheel configuration
6 foot plug in the fuselage in order to seat 10-12
Brake and Steer by wire (substantial weight savings)
Tiller
EVS
Xenon Landing and Taxi Lights
APU that can be used in flight if needed for Pressurization, ACMs, and DC power with its own battery for start
Huge External baggage
Wing/Slats off of the Global 5K (size adjusted for the 60 Fuselage)
Unleash more power from the P&Ws: be able to T/O out of ASE or EGE at MGTOW/30c with enough fuel to go 1250NM and climb at 1K/Min on 1 engine
Rudder Bias/Boost for SE ops
Increase Mmo (.87-.90)
a true 3000 miles range
Honeywel Primus or Collins proline 21 up front
Auto Throttles would also be nice, but not a must have
price less than 16M

I know this would be a long shot to get all of these things put on a 60, but airplanes would be flying off the production line if these items could be had in an airplane for less than 16M
 

miles otoole

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That's pretty much the 300 summed up nicely at $15-$16 mil (in 1998 dollars). The problem again is taking 300 business away. They're not dummies( OK, maybe they are). The 45XR is a great bird (as soon as all of the new aircraft rollout problems were worked out) and the 300 from what I hear has had very few, if any, problems for a brand new type.
 

LJ45

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If the Navy buys the 60, maybe a lot of them, we will not see anything new from Learjet for a while.

I am very disappointed in Bombardier/Learjet and their engineering right now.

In general, they are very lame right now and would rather say it is too hard then make fixes and improvements!

They would rather follow then lead!

I wish we had order another brand!...But it is too late now!!!!!
 

ultrarunner

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The 45 wing on the 60 fuselage/engines would be a great set up....

The 45XR wing lifts 21,500 lbs on 7000 lbs of thrust... with a wing area 311 sq. ft.

The 60 wing lifts 23,500 on 9200 lbs of thrust!!!!! Wing area 264 sq. ft.


We GOTTA get these two together!
 

LJ45

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60xr

Bombardier Learjet 60XR Coming in 2007
New avionics and an upgraded cabin interior distinguish the Learjet 60XR from the Learjet 60, which will be replaced when the newer version of the midsize jet enters service in the first quarter of 2007. The Learjet 60XR will feature Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics, as well as an integrated flight information system that allows the pilots to call up approach plates and airport diagrams on the flight displays. The newly styled interior will have redesigned seats that improve legroom, a larger galley and vanity cabinet and additional storage space. The cabin will also have an updated entertainment system, LED lighting, a reclaimed window in the aft lavatory and a new modular floorplan offering a wider choice of configurations. The price of a typically equipped Learjet 60XR is $12.9 million

I guess nothing really new for a while, That is what happens when you are last on the pro pilot survey! LOL
 
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That annoucement makes happy Raytheon, Cessna and Gulfstream (G150).
 

HawkerF/O

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Senior_Citizen said:
That annoucement makes happy Raytheon, Cessna and Gulfstream (G150).
Someone on here said they talked to a slaesman a while back and he said there was going to be an NBAA announcement ad with that announcement "there would never be another reason to buy a Hawker". If this is all he's got, I wish I knew where that salesman was cause I would CLOWN him!!
 

LJ45

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so true!

HawkerF/O said:
Someone on here said they talked to a slaesman a while back and he said there was going to be an NBAA announcement ad with that announcement "there would never be another reason to buy a Hawker". If this is all he's got, I wish I knew where that salesman was cause I would CLOWN him!!

That is right on the money!
 
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