Lear 60

PowerCurve

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Mar 30, 2003
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A few questions about the Lear 60, I'm looking into some stats for a friend..

It's rated to FL 510, what altitudes does it really use?

Is it coast-to-coast, if so, with what kind of fuel load and pax numbers.. say from Chicago to L.A. then out to New York..

What are the benefits to this type of Lear? It doesn't seem that fast with the stats from the Bombardier website of mach .81.

Any quirks, reality checks?

Thanks for the info!
 

CLCAP

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Jun 15, 2003
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Haven't flown it for quite a while but I'll give it a try.

Real altitudes are between FL410 and FL450 depending on the weight, temp, etc.

It is coast to coast eastbound with about 4 pax. Westbound you will have to make a stop more than 80% of the time. Chicago - LA - New York should be doable most of the time (assuming nice weather in NY)

Benefits:

Climbs like a raped ape, pretty comfortable cabin, good range for most north america flights, great engines, pretty reliable in the last 7 years.

MMO is indeed .81 - but most operators I have spoken to cruise it at around .76-.78 in order to conserve fuel (I think max range is around .74-.76). You will on the other hand be able to make .80 at almost any weight and any altitude (up to 410 whereafter MMO drops down I believe). At 410 and .80 you are still WAY under max power.

Quirks etc:

The 60's brakes used to be way underdimensioned. My understanding is that they have an SB that makes the brakes beefier - but bombardier did not publish better numbers. Ref's are pretty fast, sometimes arount 135 kts coming into an airport like Eagle, CO. You cannot use flaps and spoilers at the same time - so trying to slow down into high elevation airports can be a lot of "fun". The T/R's are awesome though (but you can't use them for your landing numbers except for when the runway is contaminated).

All in all - it's a GREAT airplane from a pilots perspective (think Ferarri ENZO), but if I was paying the bills - I'd probably buy a hawker.



PowerCurve said:
A few questions about the Lear 60, I'm looking into some stats for a friend..

It's rated to FL 510, what altitudes does it really use?

Is it coast-to-coast, if so, with what kind of fuel load and pax numbers.. say from Chicago to L.A. then out to New York..

What are the benefits to this type of Lear? It doesn't seem that fast with the stats from the Bombardier website of mach .81.

Any quirks, reality checks?

Thanks for the info!
 

Ihaveflown

"We in a tight spot!"
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Posts
21
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PowerCurve said:
A few questions about the Lear 60, I'm looking into some stats for a friend..

It's rated to FL 510, what altitudes does it really use?

Is it coast-to-coast, if so, with what kind of fuel load and pax numbers.. say from Chicago to L.A. then out to New York..

What are the benefits to this type of Lear? It doesn't seem that fast with the stats from the Bombardier website of mach .81.

Any quirks, reality checks?

Thanks for the info!

It is rated to 510. However, this was done in testing and proving without the weight of an interior. In reality you will start to get behind the power curve at around 430. I likes 410. It will burn about 1200#'s at .76 at this altitude. At .80 fuel burn is about 1350ish. Optimum altitudes are 370 to 420.

Chicago to L.A. if you go out of MDW with one to two pax and full of fuel it can be done depending on temperature. ORD to LAX shouldn't be a problem. LAX to N. Y. only if you have better than 50 knots tail wind and good weather in the northeast. That's a long haul for the 60. It will hold 7910#'s a gas if you over wing fuel it. If you SPPR your fuel you will only get 7800#. Plan 1800 first hour and 1200 - 1300 every hour after depending on your cruise setting.

Benefits are that it is a stand up cabin. Good space in the lav. Heated baggage compartment (not pressurized). FADEC works great. UNS FMS is very user friendly. AMS 850 on earlier models not so friendly. Electric foot warmers in the cockpit for those long cold soaking trips make it easy for those of us with stiff joints. Great T/R's. Anti skid works great. Handles great. PAX have either a VCR or DVD player on board, CD/radio, convection oven, airshow, etc.

Quirks and Downfalls: Brake energy is usually the limiting factor on take off. Most 60 pilots prefer to land on a 5000 foot strip or greater. Needs about 1 foot of wing on each side. Winglet buz is noticed at .78 until you get below 800# fuel in each wing, then you can push it up. It goes through landing lights faster than most other planes. They are on the main struts. High and Hot - i.e. Aspen, plan a fuel stop within 100 miles. Anything below 3000 MSL shouldn't be a problem. If you don't use the APU (if equipped) regularly you may loose the use of it. In other words, start it after each landing and it will work. Once you don't do this you will have problems with condensation in the APU causing it to.....just be there for weight and balance reasons only.

PM me for more details.
 

PowerCurve

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Thanks for the quick info... I appreciate your feedback on the aircraft.

Who do most of you use for recurrent?

Thanks!
 

yfly

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Apr 24, 2002
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Any truth to the rumor that a 60 cannot be quick-turned do to brake energy limit?
 

capnflyright

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Nov 27, 2001
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Have to wait 20 minutes if you land in the brake energy envelope for temp and altitude.

The 60 will do non-stop MDW to LA with full pax as long as the temp is 20C and below. The LA to New York trip can be done non-stop 85% with 6 pax leaving you with 1500# in NY.

We generally cruise at 390 to 410 using .76 because the "rumble" you get around .78. The "rumble" is very noticeable and the .76 keeps the folks in back happy.

I've been to 48,200' with it and "coffin corner" is about a 10 kt margin. You have to be around 1000# of fuel with just two crewmembers aboard to get to 510.

The brake SB costs around 25K per side and allows you to disregard the mandatory brake wear check every 25-30 cycles.

One great thing about the airplane is that you can meet the climb gradient out of ASE when loaded properly. This airplane climbs like crazy. It was the first airplane I had to pull the power back to around 70% after T.O. in order to stay below 250kts.

I had talked with Raisebeck at NBAA and they said that the 60 may be their next mod airplane, the way they modified the 35. If this airplane had another 600# of fuel Bombardier would have an awesome airplane.

Maintenance issues we have had:
-Starter/Generators
-T/R stang cracks
-Spoilers
-Fuel bladders
-Electrical quirks which you have to resolve by completely depowering the airplane. These have only happened while on the ground. Precip has caused some computer lights to come on, but have gone out when the airplane was restarted on the ground.

Hope this helps.
 

fly4kix

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May 21, 2005
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.7Dual
we use fsi atl, I have had problems with tus

The way brake energy was explained to me, it's more a takeoff limitation. We use the book, if we are in the runway/weight limits, we shut one down, kick'em out and go on our way
 
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