Latest on UAL recalls

[Sonny Crockett]

How bout the 66.7% pay increase??

Exactly!

Tilton is getting his....and we get $%#@

 

[Sonny Crockett]

This pretty much sums it up....

I would agree with you IF it came with 1:3.5 rigs like DAL has AND 3:15 per day for vacation like DAL has. Going from lookback to 1:4 is no real prize at all. Allowing to go below 65 ONLY if we give vacation at 2.8 per day is COMPLETELY CONCESSIONARY along with just about every other aspect of this agreement. I don't think you grasp what we're saying here. It's not what we're getting rid of, it's what we're reverting to. You made the statement, "This has nothing to do with the 2.8. When we get 2.8 increased, this will increase too." Well, come back with a TA that has 2.8 increased. Come back with a TA that has 1:3.5. Do that and we're getting somewhere, then it's an agreement that both sides get and give. Right now we give and the company gets. Why? Because what we're reverting to is no better than what we have.

I agree that Skynet TT will determine trip trades from here on out and that it has nothing to do with this agreement. What I also know is that in the 33 years my father worked here the ONLY time he saw his quality of life deteriorate was when they went to 1:3.5 from 1:3. I also know that the only time I say my quality of life deteriorate (due to nothing I did) was when rigs deteriorated further to 1:4.

Although this agreement ALLOWS for more efficiency, it does not PENALIZE the company for being innefficient. Until I see that, I'm not giving them a thing.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

39.7mil where is my barf bag??

 

[Huggyu2]

I see this as an easy takeback when the company needs to reduce block hours.

Has there been an "easy takeback" in the last few years? If the company is pushing for this now, it's obviously a big issue for them. I do see the company's point: it keeps them from having to hire as many pilots, getting more productivity out of the ones they have. But that's probably one of the biggest QOL issues for me. I'd rather negotiate on other issues, not this one.

 

[Andy]

How bout the 66.7% pay increase??

That's not grounded in reality. Gotta take what you can get. We're getting some stuff permanently in exchange for (mostly) temporary gives.

 

[Andy]

Has there been an "easy takeback" in the last few years? If the company is pushing for this now, it's obviously a big issue for them. I do see the company's point: it keeps them from having to hire as many pilots, getting more productivity out of the ones they have. But that's probably one of the biggest QOL issues for me. I'd rather negotiate on other issues, not this one.

You can bet that the company will be more than willing to drop the floor back to 50 when we're fat on pilots. ... and that day will come again.

 

[Wino]

NO, they won't. You will never get that back.

They will simply recall/hire less, and it will be on a permanent basis. Career progression will stagnate, based on the fewer bodies.

Its a huge give, that you won't be able to get back, and it is MOST important for flexibility in people's lives. Now if they want to give the pay rates from the previous contract in return for that... well that is a different animal.

There is NO SUCH THING AS AN EASY GIVE. Everything that is "easy" is costing you something else.

There is no such thing as a TEMPORARY give either, just like taxes, once in place you never get rid of them. Don't believe me? Look at taxes on the turnpikes/bridges etc....

Wino

 

[Andy]

There is no such thing as a TEMPORARY give either, just like taxes, once in place you never get rid of them. Don't believe me? Look at taxes on the turnpikes/bridges etc....

So when it says in the TA that those temporary gives expire Oct 07, they really won't expire? Um, OK.

 

[Huggyu2]

So what does happen after Oct 07? Will there have to be a new TA?

 

[spinup]

No, that provision is in this TA.