Latest NJA upgrade time

[CA1900]

The really bad news is that our recent pay-raise through IBB is being rapidly eaten away... It's going to be a l-o-n-g four years without a raise, particularly in the co-pilot's seat.

It was a 46% raise for first-year FOs. I don't see that getting eaten away in four years.

 

[Mooneymite]

It was a 46% raise for first-year FOs. I don't see that getting eaten away in four years.

I don't dispute that it was a good raise that brought us up to NBAA copilot pay. However, inflation compounded over 4 years will certainly hurt us. We won't be making in real dollars what we are making today and that makes staying in the right seat more painful.

 

[T-1GUY]

Nevermind...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Since NJA is not totally immune to the price of fuel, I think hiring will slow and up-grade times will significantly lengthen. :bawling:

As a fractional operator, we are "somewhat" protected, but the dramatic increase in costs is going to negatively impact our growth just like every other jet operator.

Posted Jet A price in EWR last weekend was $8.44! Even though NJA may not be paying that price, our customers will be getting significantly higher fuel charges and some of our "marginal" owners will drop out.

I think we'll see the line of people waiting to buy a share at NJA shorten considerably as present customers sell their shares. There will be a consequent slowing in NJA hiring and consequent stretching out of up-grade times.

As someone posted earlier: predicting up-grade time is impossible; however, we're still better off here than at an airline!

The really bad news is that our recent pay-raise through IBB is being rapidly eaten away since "real inflation" (CPI computed according to the formula prior to 1986) is clipping along at almost 12%! It's going to be a l-o-n-g four years without a raise, particularly in the co-pilot's seat.

I really dont see fuel prices affecting fractional/corporate operation all that much.

There is heavy emphasis on bargaining, contracts, tankering, etc...but I dont know any places that hae seem a decline in flying due to fuel prices.

The overall economy may affect some "marginal" owners, but thats far beyond the fuel surcharges.

If the owners are worried about filling the tanks, Id be working on the resume!

 

[fischman]

I really dont see fuel prices affecting fractional/corporate operation all that much.

There is heavy emphasis on bargaining, contracts, tankering, etc...but I dont know any places that hae seem a decline in flying due to fuel prices.

The overall economy may affect some "marginal" owners, but thats far beyond the fuel surcharges.

If the owners are worried about filling the tanks, Id be working on the resume!

I'm not so sure.

If anyone seriously thinks the current fuel prices aren't going to effect NJA, they are living in a dream world:

We still have to pay for ferry flights. (I just spent $1400 for 230 gal to sit hot spare)

Rental cars

Taxis

Catering cost will increase due to delivery charges and higher costs of food.

Airline tickets

Etc...

This DOES and WILL effect our bottom line. You can count on that.

What can you do to minimize the effect? Fly your planned speed. If it says NCT, use it instead of HSC. Get a rental that is more fuel efficient. Try to minimize delivery costs for catering IF POSSIBLE.

 

[fischman]

Well played Sir!

I know.

I'm awesome.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm not so sure.

If anyone seriously thinks the current fuel prices aren't going to effect NJA, they are living in a dream world:

We still have to pay for ferry flights. (I just spent $1400 for 230 gal to sit hot spare)

Rental cars

Taxis

Catering cost will increase due to delivery charges and higher costs of food.

Airline tickets

Etc...

This DOES and WILL effect our bottom line. You can count on that.

What can you do to minimize the effect? Fly your planned speed. If it says NCT, use it instead of HSC. Get a rental that is more fuel efficient. Try to minimize delivery costs for catering IF POSSIBLE.

sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about owners and the amount of flying...

Yes, oil prices will affect any outfits budgets and bottom lies, but I suspect they will pass those costs directly onto the owners.

A few hundred dollar surcharge wont persuade any of them to take Southwest Airlines.

Be smart, spend wisely...just dont be over-concerned about saving a millionaire a buck.

 

[brokeflyer]

7 years.......im not joking

 

[fischman]

sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about owners and the amount of flying...

Yes, oil prices will affect any outfits budgets and bottom lies, but I suspect they will pass those costs directly onto the owners.

A few hundred dollar surcharge wont persuade any of them to take Southwest Airlines.

Be smart, spend wisely...just dont be over-concerned about saving a millionaire a buck.

Good!

That means you are in the real world. Aren't you glad you didn't take the blue pill?

 

[RP170]

7 years.......im not joking

Beats indefinite upgrades or never upgrading at the majors. It's not a question of how long to upgrade there but how long before getting furloughed.

I'll take a 7 yr upgrade with job security and a livable income anyday over that.

 

[gunfyter]

Beats indefinite upgrades or never upgrading at the majors. It's not a question of how long to upgrade there but how long before getting furloughed.

I'll take a 7 yr upgrade with job security and a livable income anyday over that.

You have chosen wisely.

 

[acaTerry]

And this is one of the reasons I am so glad they airline us around...reminding me of what I am so glad to not be doing anymore. A slow upgrade at NJA is still better than a fast upgrade in that Dash, 1900, RJ, whatever...making more here as a beechjunk copilot at year 4 than I was as a 4 year CRJ captain. And the working environment here is better. We have too many guys dying to be here than to listen to folks who begged stole and borrowed to get here and then complain about not upgrading right away.

 

[gunfyter]

Terry,

I think the point of the thread is to have people realize that upgrade times are not what they once were ... so they don't have cause to complain when they do not upgrade as quickly as they may have been led to believe in the interview or from friends who came before them.

**Past Performance is no guarantee of future returns.**
​

 

[acaTerry]

Terry,

I think the point of the thread is to have people realize that upgrade times are not what they once were ... so they don't have cause to complain when they do not upgrade as quickly as they may have been led to believe in the interview or from friends who came before them.

**Past Performance is no guarantee of future returns.**
​

That was the gist of my post. But I guess rotorheads need a little help reading:laugh:

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I don't dispute that it was a good raise that brought us up to NBAA copilot pay. However, inflation compounded over 4 years will certainly hurt us. We won't be making in real dollars what we are making today and that makes staying in the right seat more painful.

Our pay increases at current dollars:

Year 2 3.5%
Year 3 8.3%
Year 4 3.5%
Year 5 3.5%
Year 6 6.5%
Year 7 3.5%

I don't thing we'll be standing in the soup lines any time soon.

 

[Helmsalee]

When I was hired at a major in 1976 they told me I would be a captain in 5 years. Two mergers and a bankruptcy later, it took 21.5. You cannot predict the future. Just take what comes and make the best of it. You will be much happier.

 

[Fozzy]

Now if we could just replace this Honeywell setup with something from Apple.

A TRS-80 would be an improvement over Honeywell.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Our pay increases at current dollars:

Year 2 3.5%
Year 3 8.3%
Year 4 3.5%
Year 5 3.5%
Year 6 6.5%
Year 7 3.5%

I don't thing we'll be standing in the soup lines any time soon.

The average inflation rate since 2000 has been 2.78%. So the 'real' pay increase are as follows:
Year 2: 0.7%
Year 3: 5.6%
Year 4: 0.7%
Year 5: 0.7%
Year 6: 3.7%
Year 7: 0.7%

2.78% inflation rate DOES NOT reflect the current oil price of $130 which makes everything more expensive. The "real" pay increases therefore will most likely be even less.

Pilots, unlike other professions, do not have numerous improvements in rank: assistant supervisor, supervisor, assistant manager, manager, general manager, VP of department, etc, etc...Therefore, It is essential that pilot pay-scales reflect the increase in proficiency and experience of a pilot over time.

Having said that, ALL of your 121 brothers/sisters will likely see 20 to 100% pay cuts!! Comparing apples to apples, NJA is a pretty sweet deal.

 

[rydog]

A few hundred dollar surcharge wont persuade any of them to take Southwest Airlines.

Try $1,000 to $2300 per hour. It ain't chump change even for the rich.

Will it affect most? Probably not. NJA isn't immune, but we are best positioned to absorb or pass on the cost.

 

[skyward80]

Is there a coordinated initiative among NJA pilots to help save the company money on things such as fuel costs? I'm sure most pilots find ways to help save the company money (run the APU less, flying planned speeds, etc.) just wondering if it's a coordinated effort or more of an individual one.

I wouldn't be surprised to see NJA pilots come up with a coordinated effort on savings before management starts asking for it.

Skyward80

 

[captain dad]

They give us numbers to pull the power back on ferry legs to save gas, as long as it doesn't make us late.

I haven't flown with anyone that has been knowingly wasteful, but it is kind of relative. I mean we are a luxury transportation business. We don't skimp on amenities or comfort.

In short you get what you pay for and yes our peanuts are complementary...and the wine, and the soda, and the chips, and the champagne, and the candy, and the booze, and the cookies,...