Latest at ABX? How is it related to ATI?

[johnsonrod]

Saw a few ABX 767-200s at MIA a few days ago. What is the latest with ABX? Read on APC that they have 31 767-2/300s - not bad. Also stated pilot domiciles in both CVG and MIA.

Regarding ABX:
- Are they hiring? Any plans to hire?
- What does the schedule look like (days off per month)?
- Mainly night flying or is it now more varied flying?
- Would newhires likely get CVG or MIA?

Lastly, how does the ATI relationship work - are the ATI pilots completely separate from the ABX pilots? Are furloughed ATI pilots given slots at ABX?

Thanks for any update.

 

[l8fr82hub]

are the ATI pilots completely separate from the ABX pilots?

Yes

Are furloughed ATI pilots given slots at ABX?

No

 

[big pimpn']

why would the furloughed ABX pilots have slots at ATI and not the other way around? Just curious

 

[l8fr82hub]

why would the furloughed ABX pilots have slots at ATI and not the other way around? Just curious

They got a side letter in their last contract that allowed them to be hired at other ATSG carriers. It wasn't reciprocal.

 

[xspud]

Lastly, how does the ATI relationship work - are the ATI pilots completely separate from the ABX pilots? Are furloughed ATI pilots given slots at ABX?

Let's start with this question. ABX and ATI are owned by the holding group ATSG, which evolved (or devolved!) from the original Airborne Express. ATSG also owned Capitol which has just merged with ATI. As previously stated, ABX negotiated for recall rights to the other ATSG airlines. The ATI group has not negotiated this right. ABX pilots recalled to ATI are also paid according to the ABX pay scale (ATSG pays them the difference). ATI ended up with a sizable block of ABX pilots who were paid differently, and that obviously created some controversy. Aside from that there is little or no cooperation between the ATSG pilot groups. It doesn't help that ABX is Teamsters, ATI/Cappy is ALPA. Management has been effective at "whipsawing" the groups, fostering an atmosphere in which elements in each pilot group are influenced by the possibility that ATSG flying might be moved to their group.

"- Are they hiring? Any plans to hire?"
No and No. ATI currently has about 50 pilots on furlough who are eligible for recall at ABX. ATI has another 20-30 former ABX pilots who are not furloughed but are also eligible for recall at ABX. ABX currently has furlough notices out for 18 pilots, though this number will hopefully be reduced. But if ABX and ATI are merged in the near future, there probably won't be enough work for everyone currently on the list. Barring something dramatic, the way it looks now there won't be any hiring at ATSG for a couple of years, minimum. I don't know about ATI, but the current management at ABX doesn't seem capable of pulling off anything dramatically positive.

"- What does the schedule look like (days off per month)?"
17 work days per month. Many lines are built with 17 days in a row.

"- Mainly night flying or is it now more varied flying?"
All around the clock and I think it's fair to say that it's mostly international. Miami to South/Central America and Carib. LAX to Mexico/CenAmerica. Intra-Europe for TNT & DHL, currently some CRAF flying to/from Europe. A couple of Trans-Atlantic runs for DHL. Currently one Japan-China trip for JAL.

"- Would newhires likely get CVG or MIA?"
CVG. Only a handful of crews in MIA.

 

[l8fr82hub]

I'll add that in addition to the 50 or so presently furloughed ATI inherited a bunch of Cappy furloughs that will have to be recalled before any hiring occurs. Not seeing anything big on the horizon.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Lastly, how does the ATI relationship work - are the ATI pilots completely separate from the ABX pilots? Are furloughed ATI pilots given slots at ABX?

Let's start with this question. ABX and ATI are owned by the holding group ATSG, which evolved (or devolved!) from the original Airborne Express. ATSG also owned Capitol which has just merged with ATI. As previously stated, ABX negotiated for recall rights to the other ATSG airlines. The ATI group has not negotiated this right. ABX pilots recalled to ATI are also paid according to the ABX pay scale (ATSG pays them the difference). ATI ended up with a sizable block of ABX pilots who were paid differently, and that obviously created some controversy. Aside from that there is little or no cooperation between the ATSG pilot groups. It doesn't help that ABX is Teamsters, ATI/Cappy is ALPA. Management has been effective at "whipsawing" the groups, fostering an atmosphere in which elements in each pilot group are influenced by the possibility that ATSG flying might be moved to their group.

"- Are they hiring? Any plans to hire?"
No and No. ATI currently has about 50 pilots on furlough who are eligible for recall at ABX. ATI has another 20-30 former ABX pilots who are not furloughed but are also eligible for recall at ABX. ABX currently has furlough notices out for 18 pilots, though this number will hopefully be reduced. But if ABX and ATI are merged in the near future, there probably won't be enough work for everyone currently on the list. Barring something dramatic, the way it looks now there won't be any hiring at ATSG for a couple of years, minimum. I don't know about ATI, but the current management at ABX doesn't seem capable of pulling off anything dramatically positive.

"- What does the schedule look like (days off per month)?"
17 work days per month. Many lines are built with 17 days in a row.

"- Mainly night flying or is it now more varied flying?"
All around the clock and I think it's fair to say that it's mostly international. Miami to South/Central America and Carib. LAX to Mexico/CenAmerica. Intra-Europe for TNT & DHL, currently some CRAF flying to/from Europe. A couple of Trans-Atlantic runs for DHL. Currently one Japan-China trip for JAL.

"- Would newhires likely get CVG or MIA?"
CVG. Only a handful of crews in MIA.

Good post Xspud. I think the hiring will be a little more aggressive.

I think next month when the age 65 anniversary comes around, there will be retirements not just at the ATSG airlines, but at all airlines across the board. Also, the majors and legacy's will start hiring at a rate we haven't seen in a while. I just read that AA plans to hire 2500 pilots. So ATI and ABX will be loosing people.
Some of the younger pilots at the ATSG airlines are just there until something better comes along. Lots of ATI's growth is in Asian countries with a handful of planes. Some people just don't like being over there.
True..ABX, Capital & ATI are not hiring and don't plan to, but they are reactionary so they'll wait until the last minute to realize they're short on crews, then it will be a mad rush to hire.
Capital just recalled all furloughed pilots and put them on the 727, but most of them bypassed because they found better jobs elsewhere. If Capital has a need for more 727 pilots before they're all parked, they'll have to run a newhire classes. (makes sense to put ATI furloughees to work on CCIA's 727's, but who knows what they'll do)