Last chance for an airline job?

[hangar7guy]

Looking for advice and/or opinions, please:

Can a guy like me, in his mid-40s, possibly be competitive for a job with ACA, ASA or Comair? My logbook shows over 5000 hours, 4000 PIC, 450 ME (including 150 turboprop), and 300 hours *real* Part 135 SIC. I also have a BS degree. Trouble is, my ME time isn't recent; I haven't been in a twin in over 5 years. And my instrument time isn't current, either.

I got a late start in this business, not getting my commercial until I was almost 30. Then, I just was always in the wrong place at the wrong time for time-building jobs. I've been on a dozen or so regional interviews in the past but things never clicked. And over the past 5 years I've had to take time off from the time-building and job-hunting for family reasons, although I've at least stayed current by instructing 300 hours or so over the past year.

After all this, I'm at a crossroads: Do I continue chasing the airline dream (even if it's only an RJ), or do I pack it in and do something else with my life?

Anyone reading this who has been involved in the regional hiring process, please level with me. Am I crazy for wanting to pursue this in what is undoubtedly the airline industry's darkest hour -- or should I go for it?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

"7"

 

[Shag_McNasty]

Your timing certainly sux, but what've you got to lose?

 

[jascl65]

>After all this, I'm at a crossroads: Do I continue chasing the airline dream (even if it's only an RJ), or do I pack it in and do something else with my life<


Even if its only an RJ? Gee I guess my airline dream is a waste since I only fly an RJ? I know its not as big and doesnt pay like a Boeing but you should check one out sometime, its really a pretty nice airplane.

 

[dash8driver]

its never too late

its never too late to go after that dream...

we have recently hired a couple of people ~50 years old and one of them hadnt flown in a while. one of them has already moved on flying 737's and the other one just made captain here.

if you really want it, give it a shot.

 

[hangar7guy]

Sorry for the bad phrasing ("only an RJ")...I didn't mean to be trashing those airplanes.

Unlike some people, I realize that the number of seats following you around doesn't really make you less of a success, or less professional than anyone else. In fact, I've always considered the regional carriers as desirable career destinations in themselves. As for the pay...I don't need a BMW or a trophy house. I could live comfortably on the pay scales of the companies I mentioned (after a few years).

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Your age is a plus for the regionals

Your time is competitive for the regionals, you do not have recall rights at a major and have a limited number of years left to fly.

The HR people at a regional would most likely think that if they hire you, you will stay for the duration, that you have more life and flight experience than younger candidates.

Use this to your advantage in an interview and don't sell yourself short.

 

[bobbysamd]

Age discrimination

I like your quals, although you could stand to have some more multi and turbine. As far as age is concerned, I have to disagree with the above.

We've had similar experiences. I got a late start, too. I started flying in my early thirties. Around 1987, during that expansion, I thought about flying as a career. I received encouragement and opinions that I wasn't too old to start. I had my degree and only needed my multi ratings. I finished them, and with something like 900 hours and 50 of multi I began applying to regionals and freight. I, too, was always in the wrong place and the wrong time for time-building jobs. My goal was the commuters. I knew that I was not, or ever would be, majors material. I was fine with that, along with lack of pay and lack of trophy house (I was concerned that I would be paid fairly and commensurate with my responsibilities.).

I got nowhere initially, although such places as Mesa and SkyWest were advertising minmum requirements that were close to my quals. Same for Scenic. Eventually, I got on with ERAU and built my times to well past the standard commuter mins of the day, which were 1500 total and 500 multi. I got my ATP. In the meantime, I sent out tons of materials to commuters. I received few responses. In the meantime, hiring was good. Nearly every one of my Riddle colleagues were being picked up by commuters or freight as soon as they hit the mins.

I finally got interviews in 1990. I, too, had several interviews but nothing clicked. My first interview was the day after Saddam invaded Kuwait. My totals on that day were something like 2800 total and 630 of multi (I could have interviewed there sooner, but I had a signed a contract that I wanted to fulfill.). I was not hired. A recession set in. I had three more interviews and a cattle call and wasn't hired from any. I was about 40 at the time. However, there was still interviewing and more of my Riddle colleagues were being hired.

I should mention that my Riddle colleagues were nearly half my age, early to mid-20s at the most. They had essentially the same quals as me, time built through flight instructing. Once more, I was 40 and they were younger. They were being hired and I was not. Do you see what I'm driving at? I feel that without question I, at 40 years old, experienced age discrimination. Judging from your comments, it sounds like you did, too.

I continued to update and send fresh apps to some regionals for six years before I finally gave up. As Jeff suggested, I thought from the beginning that being older, having some life experience and it being obvious that I wasn't going to the majors would be an asset. Apparently the people in regional H.R. don't share Jeff's opinion.

I know that you'll hear that the majors hire pilots who are over 40. What you don't hear is that these individuals are highly qualified and have been flying similar equipment for years. They just didn't get their chance sooner.

I think that it would help if you were current in instruments and multiengine equipment and have more multi time. Also, it would help if you could get a 135 PIC job and work your way up from there. But, you need to be realistic with your goals, especially these days. I think that times now are worse than during my era of the early '90s.

As always, these are my .02 opinions based on my experiences. Good luck with your plans.

PS-I would have jumped for joy just to have been invited to class. I would have jumped higher for the chance to drive a 1900 around for the rest of my days. Flying an RJ would have been the icing on the cake.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Currency is your biggest obstacle

I respectfully disagree with BobbySamd about the age thing, but I think your biggest obstacle will be your currency in 135, multi and IFR.

I know a lot of people who started late in life and are flying at the regionals or corporate. However, Bobby makes some good points about how long are you going to chase the dream, how much sacrifice, etc. It will most likely take a 135- low-paying-twin-I-hope-I-don't--kill-myself-flying-job to make yourself competitive again. Not to mention you will need to build a network, LORs etc. If you are reading this and say to yourself, yeah right! easier said than done, etc. Then maybe it is time to hang it up.

Why are you out of currency? Did the job dry up or did you hang it up for a while?

There will be a lot of changes over the next year regarding the way airlines do business, SCOPE, etc. I would hang in there for at least that long and give it your best.

It is better to try and not make it than to not try at all and always wonder if you could have made it.

For inspiration, pick up "Pulp Fiction" and play "Fighters don't have an old-timers day" (track 5, I believe). Mr. Wallace is the HR person or may be the Chief Pilot giving a furlough notice or whatever. If you can't see the irony or laugh a little, then maybe you should ponder the future!

Good Luck

Jeff

 

[hangar7guy]

Thanks again.

bobbysamd--

You're right, I do think that I've been passed over for younger applicants. I remember an interview with a USAir Express outfit in the early 90s, when I was only in my mid-30s, after which they hired a young lady about 10 years younger and who had fewer hours than I had at the time. But then, the way I look at it, I'm always going to be facing the age question no matter where I go or what I do. Even in a field other than aviation.

Jeff H--

>Why are you out of currency? Did the job dry up or did you hang it up for a while?<

It's a little of both. I'm located somewhere in New York State (well away from NYC) where the opportunities are few and far between. The rust belt, you might call it. So that is the big stumbling block...where to get some more multi time without having to just rent a twin and pay for it myself. Which at times, I almost feel like doing.

My plan right now is to see what plays out over the next few months as far as the economy goes. If it looks hopeful, I might put out some feelers. As for contacts and LORs, heck -- I've got former students and fellow instructors who are working for a lot of these companies. There must be *somebody* who will walk my resume in!

 

[NYRANGERS]

The class behind me at Delta had a gentelman who was 55. my class had quite a few guys in their late 40's.

I say keep at it and good luck