Large Cabin Aircraft opinions wanted

[Silver Wings]

Wet or dry ?

Taking a LAS - HNL and a route at 2,468nm
I based on cruise worst winds (Boeing 85%) at 54kt headwind
you can easily make HNL with 8+ pax.

With OEI you're also going to be oK with over 45 mins until a wet footprint.
With loss of pressurization it is also looking OK (just). Bit harder calc.

Time to ETP is 3:55 or thereabouts.


get a contact at Embraer www.legacybyembraer.com

and get them to run the final numbers......

One thing for sure, seems no reason to pay out more $$$ for a CL604/F2000EX when they would only take 8 pax on same route (not because of range but cabin size).

 

[CatYaaak]

Taking a LAS - HNL and a route at 2,468nm
I based on cruise worst winds (Boeing 85%) at 54kt headwind
you can easily make HNL with 8+ pax.

With OEI you're also going to be oK with over 45 mins until a wet footprint.
With loss of pressurization it is also looking OK (just). Bit harder calc.

Time to ETP is 3:55 or thereabouts.


get a contact at Embraer www.legacybyembraer.com

and get them to run the final numbers......

One thing for sure, seems no reason to pay out more $$$ for a CL604/F2000EX when they would only take 8 pax on same route (not because of range but cabin size).

You need to brush up on the seating config for 604's and 2000's.

 

[GVFlyer]

Wet Footprint

The last time I flew San Francisco, CA to Honolulu, HI, I listed Savannah, GA as an alternate just because I could.

GV

 

[bigD]

The last time I flew San Francisco, CA to Honolulu, HI, I listed Savannah, GA as an alternate just because I could.

GV

Savannah GA? Holy crap that's a terrible alternate. At least list Austin so people think you have some sense!

 

[fokkerjet]

The last time I flew San Francisco, CA to Honolulu, HI, I listed Savannah, GA as an alternate just because I could.

GV

Quit showing off...................

 

[johnpeace]

Well since the California coast to Hawaii is the worlds longest over water route without any alternates, I personally would like to be in a 3 engine aircraft... One of the nice things about the 900EX is that with the loss of an engine, the effect on your range is neglegible (less than 100NM change)...

Just out of curiosity...

Why, given that most of the airliners that fly to Hawaii do so on 2 engines, would you personally prefer to be in a 3 engine aircraft?

I mean...I know it's technically *more* redundant...but aren't modern turbofans reliable and efficient enough that 2 engine (gulfstream, falcon) aircraft are statistically as safe/reliable as a 3 engine airplane?

 

[400A]

Big D

I am dissapointed in you!!! He used SAV because of the BBQ wings at the cocpit!!!! You gotta start out with the wings,,,, then finish it off with a Black and Blue Burger. Maye you want to slap your momma!!!!

 

[bigD]

I am dissapointed in you!!! He used SAV because of the BBQ wings at the cocpit!!!! You gotta start out with the wings,,,, then finish it off with a Black and Blue Burger. Maye you want to slap your momma!!!!

Bah! Georgia BBQ only wishes it could be Texas BBQ!

I love BBQ smack. Heh!

 

[sleepy]

I frequently carry 9 pax on our 50EX's (the max it can carry in current configuration, but if I remember right it is certidied to carry up to 19 pax). I would not recommend it for long over-water trips with 11 people. It is, however, a great aircraft for flying around the US, Canada, Mexico, and the islands.

 

[400A]

Bahhh

No way man!!! you guys BBQ the wrong critter in Texas. Cows are for steak, PIGS are for BBQ. And by the way, that is with Sweet Tea, not Tea with sugar added in after the fact.

 

[G100driver]

No way man!!! you guys BBQ the wrong critter in Texas. Cows are for steak, PIGS are for BBQ. And by the way, that is with Sweet Tea, not Tea with sugar added in after the fact.

I am with you until started talking about Sweet Tea. Tea is supposed to quench your thirst, not cause your teeth to rot out.

 

[banned username 2]

I am with you until started talking about Sweet Tea. Tea is supposed to quench your thirst, not cause your teeth to rot out.

No kidding!

DOWN WITH THE SWEET TEA!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Mason-Dixon line and a few facts

No way man!!! you guys BBQ the wrong critter in Texas. Cows are for steak, PIGS are for BBQ. And by the way, that is with Sweet Tea, not Tea with sugar added in after the fact.

You don't live south of that line unless you drink Sweet Tea and unsweetened corn bread!

If you live south of the MD line and like sweet corn bread and unsweetened tea, you must be a carpetbagger looking for some Dixie chics.....so I've been told!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Haven't meet BBQ I haven't liked

Bah! Georgia BBQ only wishes it could be Texas BBQ!

I love BBQ smack. Heh!

You obviously haven't tried that mustard-based Carolina BBQ.

 

[G100driver]

You obviously haven't tried that mustard-based Carolina BBQ.

It ain't REAL Carolina unless it vinegar based .... non-lexington/western style sauce.

 

[Silver Wings]

Seating

As I said a lot earlier (or maybe another thread ) You can get a 12 seat H800. But who would want it. !

19 in a F50. Great, less seat pitch than a regional (and you guys criticise the Legacy). What it's certified for and what it can reasonably carry, with comfort and utility are two different things.

I still say, H800 (4 to 6), F50( 6 to 8) F2000/CL604 ( 8 and at a push 10), G-string/Legacy/G-X (12 to 14). You also got cabin baggage and a food service to run. It's supposed to be a pleasure to be in the cabin, and a decent working environment, not a game of sardines.

 

[Kiwi]

Longest over water route

Well since the California coast to Hawaii is the worlds longest over water route without any alternates, I personally would like to be in a 3 engine aircraft... One of the nice things about the 900EX is that with the loss of an engine, the effect on your range is neglegible (less than 100NM change)...

Falcon Capt I was wondering [I know it's not a common route] but Aerlineous Argentinas (excuse spelling) fly Auckland New Zealand to Buenos Aries I would have thought Santiago Chile - Auckland (dist 5233 nm) would be the longest over water route without alternates.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but I know Pitcairn Island doesn't have an airport... what else is along that route?

The only reason our owner uses the 900ex with three engines is because they don't make them with four...

 

[Mudworm]

Falcon Capt I was wondering [I know it's not a common route] but Aerlineous Argentinas (excuse spelling) fly Auckland New Zealand to Buenos Aries I would have thought Santiago Chile - Auckland (dist 5233 nm) would be the longest over water route without alternates.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but I know Pitcairn Island doesn't have an airport... what else is along that route?

The only reason our owner uses the 900ex with three engines is because they don't make them with four...

Kiwi

I dont know the exact routing for the Auckland / BA route but there is Easter Island 1800 miles west of Santiago and Tahiti, Raratonga and Tonga further west. If you use these as ETP alternates you may have shorter ETP diversion times. Either way you are right in that you will spend a he11 of a lot of time over water on that leg.

Worm

 

[sleepy]

I am not saying that you should put 19 or even 9 pax in a 50EX. What I said is that it is the wrong aircraft for carrying 11 pax over the Atlantic. A 900 would be better, but still kind of tight. What you really need is a Global or BBJ, but you won't find one for $25 million. I suggest the used GIV or 900.


As for BBQ, the best is at Sweatman's in Holly Hill, SC (mustard based) or in Eastern NC at just about any dive on the side of the road (vinager based). Beef is not BBQ, BBQ has to be PIG!

 

[CatYaaak]

As I said a lot earlier (or maybe another thread ) You can get a 12 seat H800. But who would want it. !

19 in a F50. Great, less seat pitch than a regional (and you guys criticise the Legacy). What it's certified for and what it can reasonably carry, with comfort and utility are two different things.

I still say, H800 (4 to 6), F50( 6 to 8) F2000/CL604 ( 8 and at a push 10), G-string/Legacy/G-X (12 to 14). You also got cabin baggage and a food service to run. It's supposed to be a pleasure to be in the cabin, and a decent working environment, not a game of sardines.

10 in a 604 or 2000 isn't sardines. I saw a Euro-registered 600 configured (and filled) for 15....THAT was sardines.

 

[banned username 2]

As I said a lot earlier (or maybe another thread ) You can get a 12 seat H800. But who would want it. !

19 in a F50. Great, less seat pitch than a regional (and you guys criticise the Legacy). What it's certified for and what it can reasonably carry, with comfort and utility are two different things.

I still say, H800 (4 to 6), F50( 6 to 8) F2000/CL604 ( 8 and at a push 10), G-string/Legacy/G-X (12 to 14). You also got cabin baggage and a food service to run. It's supposed to be a pleasure to be in the cabin, and a decent working environment, not a game of sardines.

Silver Wings, I see what your problem is, you are thinking like an airline pilot...

Corporations don't buy these planes with the thought of filling the seats... They aren't selling seats or trying to turn a profit with the Flight Department... A typical Corporate Passenger load is 1 to 6 passengers... It is a rare occasion to go beyond these types of loads... They don't buy a G-550 because they want to put regional style seats in it, they buy it because they need the range/performance/reliability/comfort...

We have used our 900's to fly one person to Asia or to fly 11 people to the west coast (very rare)... Corporate flying isn't necessarily about which is most cost efficient (that would be riding the airlines)... They buy these planes to save time, add convienience, security, etc...

And don't for a minute think that fuel stops overseas are cheap... Stop in Tokyo one time and you'll see what I am talking about... Handling fee's for a quick tech stop can top $4,000 and fuel can be as high as $5.00/gal in certain places... Not to mention that every stop increases the odds of breaking down and ending up AOG in some place that might not be the most "friendly"... Even if most G-V/GLEX operators don't utilize the max range of their aircraft, you can rest assured they very often exceed the 3,200 NM range that the Legacy offers... We have been often times left "wanting" more range than our 4,500 NM 900EX offers...

 

[AA717driver]

Falcon speaks the truth. Our Asian profile doesn't use the 14 hour legs at M.80. We go M.85 and stop for fuel and then go M.85 again. We save an hour even with a stop.

Cost? What cost? CASM has no meaning to the people that own G's and Globals

In other words... TIME IS MONEY!!!TC

 

[Duderino]

NORTH CAROLINA BBQ SUCKS.
OTTO's in Houston, and Stubb's in Austin baby.

dude

 

[bigD]

Word. The Dude abides.

 

[banned username 2]

Stubb's in Austin

MMmmm... Stubb's... I have a 1/2 bottle of Stubb's sauce in my fridge, think I might go take a swig!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

It's all good!

NORTH CAROLINA BBQ SUCKS.
OTTO's in Houston, and Stubb's in Austin baby.

dude

Dude, you are limiting yourself. But hey, it is your pork and you can pull it or smoke it anyway you want.....just maybe not in public.

 

[CatYaaak]

Cows are for steak

NORTH CAROLINA BBQ SUCKS.
OTTO's in Houston, and Stubb's in Austin baby.

dude

Oh, you poor, misguided victim of PR and advertising! The only reason red BBQ sauce was invented in the first place was to make stringy, Texas beef semi-edible for those not fortunate enough (or with the sense) to get their hands on real, steak-quality cows like good, Iowa grain-fed. Like has been pointed out, cows are meant to be steaks. The best cows aren't found anywhere near Austin, let alone Houston.

In a sense this illusion regarding red-sauce "BBQ" is no different than how they make money these days marketing food as being "Mesquite-grilled" as if it's something special...when all they've done is finally found out a way to make money using this nuisance, good for nothing tree-weed.

Pork BBQ is real BBQ in the same way Gulfstreams and Falcons and Challengers are real corporate jets. Texas "BBQ" is more like..say..a regional jet calling itself one. Now, you could take a vote on this Pork vs. Beef question and undoubtedly more will say BBQ is beef, but you may as well say "Ten million lemmings can't be wrong". Once again it's all about advertising...not the true essence of the thing.

North Carolina BBQ is the best, and no doubt they perfected it beforeTexas was even a state, or a country, or whatever you guys think you are over there in Baja Oklahoma.

(I mess with Texas)

 

[Gatorman]

Pork BBQ is real BBQ in the same way Gulfstreams and Falcons and Challengers are real corporate jets. Texas "BBQ" is more like..say..a regional jet calling itself one. Now, you could take a vote on this Pork vs. Beef question and undoubtedly more will say BBQ is beef, but you may as well say "Ten million lemmings can't be wrong". Once again it's all about advertising...not the true essence of the thing.

Hmmmmm, I think you need to check that..... Texas BBQ is more like a BBJ compared to Gulfstreams, Falcons, and Challengers(oh my).

Dittos on the Stubbs. With out any doubt the best BBQ sauce ever. If you have never tried it......then, my friend, you have NEVER had it that good.
And if you like Bentley's at Hooter's? Try Stubbs Wicked Wing Sauce - Inferno (I double-dog dare ya).

 

[100-1/2]

BBQ!?! Real men eat Gumbo and suck heads with a case of DOS! Crew Car out of Lake Charles. Code word: "Top off all tanks and light me up, too!" Back in Ten.

604? 4 to 5 hours 10+ pax ONE LAV! "MY GOD, JIM! I'M A $20M BIZJET! NOT A HONEYBUCKET WITH WINGS!

What the hedoublehockeysticks ever happened to the Global Express?

 

[bigD]

I'm only a victim of my taste buds. But let me tell you a little secret, CatYaaak - you know how I'm always talking about Cooper's in Llano? Well, their specialty is pork, not beef. It's ALL good, of course. But if you want pork, it's all there. Chops, ribs - whatever you'd like. And their sauce isn't sweet - it's vinegar based.

Now I'm sure your one trick pony BBQ in North Carolina is pretty good, but here, I can get any types of meat, with any types of sauce. And it's ALL good. If I ever have a need to move to N.C., and after I buy the prerequisite double wide, carpeted toilet seats, and have 12 kids all with rhyming first names - I'm sure I'll enjoy the good, but very limited, BBQ.

To use your analogy, your BBQ is like the Citation X. It does one thing well. But try and fly to Asia at .92, and soon you'll be swimming. Discriminating buyers that want varied capabilities go to the Falcon or Gulfstream. Just like buyers of Texas BBQ.

And one last thing, whomever was first isn't necessarily the best. Who started this whole business jet thing to begin with? Lear? In how many discussions on the corporate board has anyone tried to pin a Lear against a Falcon or Gulfstream? Being first might be an interesting ancedote if you're a history buff, but while you're eating "the first" BBQ, I'll be eating "the GOOD" BBQ!



(edited for spelling mistake)