Just because others are classless D-Bags, dosent mean it didnt happen. I respect Tristar for bringing it up and not having the FI 12 year old mentality of posting identifying info.
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Lack of professionalism (an example)
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Just because others are classless D-Bags, dosent mean it didnt happen. I respect Tristar for bringing it up and not having the FI 12 year old mentality of posting identifying info.
Tristar
..one in the wilderness
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It's a joke. And I take my porn star duties very seriously!
No argument here - it happens everywhere. I know I personally have times when I could have been more professional - I'm working on those everytime I (or someone else) points them out.
In the words of Ed McMahon: "YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!!!" (on both accounts).
Tristar
..one in the wilderness
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Okay - insult mode switching on:
Windows (windscreens) - the clear things that keep the pressurized air in the airplane and the wind/bugs/geese out.
Glareshield - the (usually) black thing covering the flight instruments fore and aft of the instrument panel. Usually providing some amount of protection from the instruments reflecting off of the windows at night/in low light conditions.
If you read very carefully, you will note that I said the newspapers were laying on the GLARESHIELD, as they taxied in - NOT covering the WINDOWS!!!
If you are going to try and nitpick me, at least bother to re-read the original post. I described exactly what happened, if that bothers you then perhaps you need to examine why.
I could very easily have identified the aircraft number, flight number, originating city, and arrival time. All that would have served to do was get two pilots in the hotseat in front of management and/or the FAA. That's not what I'm about. If I wanted to do that a couple of quick calls on the cell phone could have accomplished the task - but what would that have really accomplished? A couple of pilots with letters in their files and/or time off. I really want everyone here (again, self included) to think seriously about how we present ourselves. I guaran-damn-tee you will not be treated as and respected as a professional if you do not conduct yourself in a manner which demands that respect.
To be perfectly clear - Shuttle America is certainly not the only offender, there are major airline crews who discredit the profession, there are corporate crews who are an embarassment, ect.
As I said before - I'm a very laid back person, but I just could not let this one lie. This is the symptom, it's not the disease (again, if it were, I could have simply called the CP or FAA). I truly want everyone to think about how they are presenting themselves (again, self included).
The reality is "regional airlines" are operating routes and equipment which the "legacies" were only a few years ago. You (we) deserve to be compensated and treated accordingly - that isn't going to happen when pilots are simply regarded as buttom pushing chimps, and you aren't going to move beyond that unless you present yourself as, and demand to be treated as a professional.
Taxiing into the gate with newpapers strewn over the glareshield does not cry out "professional."
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I heard it was a very high up management pilot that made the cell phone call while taxiing the aircraft.
Neither does working for unprofessional compensation. There's two different stages to "professional." One is looking like one, the other is actually being one.
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
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you guys want a real unprofessionalism issue to complain about? check out the thread titled "A Public Service/Safety Plea". I'll even link it for you.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1819527#post1819527
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1819527#post1819527
pilothouston123
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I fly a Gulstream for a Billionaire that insists we dress comfortable when we fly. He also doesn't like to draw attention to himself by having "stars and Bars" around his plane. Anyhow, some guys can't deal with flying without a tie and white shirt.
Anyway I set the standard for the crews. No blue demin and must have a collared shirt. Some guy can't deal with that and his wears blue jeans and crappy shoes.
you just gotta deal with what you got infront of your face. change what you can and accecpt what you can't.
I am sure the newspaper on the glareshield was not a big deal on the pilots part but and the FAA might just say you are a dumb for putting them there, I don't see anything in the REGS that prove a violation of anykind there. but preception is reality and if you walk through the terminal with a skakeboard in your uniform, I hope its got a bow on it. cuz if you ride a skate board in the terminal its a federal offence.
I love my job and hate people that think thier sheit don't stink
Anyway I set the standard for the crews. No blue demin and must have a collared shirt. Some guy can't deal with that and his wears blue jeans and crappy shoes.
you just gotta deal with what you got infront of your face. change what you can and accecpt what you can't.
I am sure the newspaper on the glareshield was not a big deal on the pilots part but and the FAA might just say you are a dumb for putting them there, I don't see anything in the REGS that prove a violation of anykind there. but preception is reality and if you walk through the terminal with a skakeboard in your uniform, I hope its got a bow on it. cuz if you ride a skate board in the terminal its a federal offence.
I love my job and hate people that think thier sheit don't stink
QOL_is_great:)
What the?
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I back the original poster
I'm with the original poster and his message about policing our own. It's always a few that ruin it for the rest. It appears that this crew just doesn't realize how preception is everything. Does Shuttle America now days have an SOP entry against non-flight related material in the cockpit? I know that the clever placing of porn was outlawed back in 2000 or maybe it was late 1999. I guess newspapers will be outlawed next.
It's not hard to act and look professional while on the job. The public will travel no matter what takes place, how you look, but you can bet they talk about what they see. Boy do they and the things I hear and/or am asked from them. Geez, some of you guys need to help a brother out and clean up your act.
I get a kick out of watching the regional pilots stroll around the terminals with unkept (read wrinkled and unpressed) uniforms, shoes unshined or a pair that can not be shined, hair a mess, no undershirt, iPod headphones on and not realizing they are a freaking joke or don't care. I have yet to see that description fit a mainline pilot. Now I'm not talking about a pilot that is overweight and should be on P90X; because that's a whole different story.
I am sure some of you hotshot regional pilots that have taken offense to the original post will step up and say something to my post. It'll only confirm that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. From day one of wearing a uniform (police dispatcher @ 18), I understood what it meant to present myself and the uniform correctly.
If any of ya have any questions feel free to drop a line or stop me in any terminal I may be in. Oh yeah, I am the guy wearing not only a pressed uniform, but I sport Army colors on a lanyard.
Let's all do our part to keep our professional image and standards high.
I'm with the original poster and his message about policing our own. It's always a few that ruin it for the rest. It appears that this crew just doesn't realize how preception is everything. Does Shuttle America now days have an SOP entry against non-flight related material in the cockpit? I know that the clever placing of porn was outlawed back in 2000 or maybe it was late 1999. I guess newspapers will be outlawed next.
It's not hard to act and look professional while on the job. The public will travel no matter what takes place, how you look, but you can bet they talk about what they see. Boy do they and the things I hear and/or am asked from them. Geez, some of you guys need to help a brother out and clean up your act.
I get a kick out of watching the regional pilots stroll around the terminals with unkept (read wrinkled and unpressed) uniforms, shoes unshined or a pair that can not be shined, hair a mess, no undershirt, iPod headphones on and not realizing they are a freaking joke or don't care. I have yet to see that description fit a mainline pilot. Now I'm not talking about a pilot that is overweight and should be on P90X; because that's a whole different story.
I am sure some of you hotshot regional pilots that have taken offense to the original post will step up and say something to my post. It'll only confirm that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. From day one of wearing a uniform (police dispatcher @ 18), I understood what it meant to present myself and the uniform correctly.
If any of ya have any questions feel free to drop a line or stop me in any terminal I may be in. Oh yeah, I am the guy wearing not only a pressed uniform, but I sport Army colors on a lanyard.
Let's all do our part to keep our professional image and standards high.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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Apples and Oranges IMO
Sounds like this guy had a sense of humor and was trying to have some fun at work. God knows a sense of humor is what gets me through ATL somedays.
I have an even better story about professionalism. Late night flight, lots of T-storms all over the southeast.
Unnamed Regional Airline: Washington Center, we'd like direct to XXXX (their destination)."
ATC: "Are you sure you want to do that with the weather?"
Unnamed Regional Airline: "Standby, let us turn our radar on."
We all know there are magazines and newspapers in the cockpit. Have enough common sense to put that stuff away so nobody can see it.
Right now the Regional Airlines are under a microscope after what happened in Buffalo, and some of you dip********************s aren't helping us reverse the image that is gaining momentum lately.
Sounds like this guy had a sense of humor and was trying to have some fun at work. God knows a sense of humor is what gets me through ATL somedays.
I have an even better story about professionalism. Late night flight, lots of T-storms all over the southeast.
Unnamed Regional Airline: Washington Center, we'd like direct to XXXX (their destination)."
ATC: "Are you sure you want to do that with the weather?"
Unnamed Regional Airline: "Standby, let us turn our radar on."
We all know there are magazines and newspapers in the cockpit. Have enough common sense to put that stuff away so nobody can see it.
Right now the Regional Airlines are under a microscope after what happened in Buffalo, and some of you dip********************s aren't helping us reverse the image that is gaining momentum lately.
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I never chime in on anything here but I feel the need to now. I don't wear my hair like the mainline guys. Yes I might have a little spike in mine, but does that make me an unprofessional pilot? I might not always have my shoes polished, but does that make me an unprofessional pilot? I might not always have my shirt freshly pressed after my 9 hour overnight, but does that make me an unprofessional pilot? You cannot judge an entire group of regional guys on one thing you have seen. Yes we have all had days where we could have looked better or even maybe acted differently, but that does not make us unprofessional. Every day I come to work trying to look my best and also acting my best. I will be the first one to admit that I cannot do that 24/7 while on the job. My first responsibility is making sure I get the passengers and myself safely to their destination, and then I will make sure I look professional while doing that, just so I can make myself and "those who watch" feel good about themselves.
btw read it, tear out the Sudoku, and throw the rest away
btw read it, tear out the Sudoku, and throw the rest away
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
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Well that's fine, but I recall while working for Acey back in the day a DAL pilot telling me (while I was in their J/S to SFO) that he doesn't think ASA will EVER get a seniority list merger/flowthru/staple because of all the "Riffraff" we hire.. I asked him to define "Riffraff"... he said, just look at the way many of your guys walk around the terminal with no hat on, ill-fitted uniforms with mismatched pants and jackets... there is no way in (expletive deleted), I'd vote to let them on the property!
That didn't make me feel very good, especially since it was true... I did get involved in the professional standards committee, and I did tell a few guys that they needed to clean up their act, which didn't make me any friends, and I didn't care.
QOL_is_great:)
What the?
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This is not only where experience comes into play, but common sense. You may think if your shoes, hair or shirt are unkept then you still remain professional. I disagree!! So do many others within our profession. Your uniform, conduct and overall appreance ARE part of being a professional pilot and that is how our society still views airline pilots. How do you view an unkept doctor, lawyer, or other professional we pilots like to be compared to?
Let me pose this question. You skip on ironing a shirt due to a nine-hour rest period then what else will you skip on? Shorter preflight? Not use a checklist or do it from memory even if a checklist is required? Do you shorten your preflight based on the wx outside?
One poster made mention about flying in wx in the southeast and a crew was cruising around with no wx radar on, geez. I remember once reading that all equipment must be on and in a STBY mode while operating the aircraft. That's a failure to be professional.
pro·fes·sion·al (prə-fěsh'ə-nəl) http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html
adj.
- Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
- Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
- Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
- Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
- Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
- A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
- One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
- A skilled practitioner; an expert.
Again, a small few ruin it for the vast majority.
DX Rick
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It's not going to be solved here on FI.com by you, me or the next guy trashing each other on here. It needs to be done my the CP's and management, busting down on guys who wearing the yellow stained shirts or the shirts so old, they have holes in them.
I know, I hate the hat too. But seeing how most airlines have dropped the hat from the uniform, they're going to be lax on everything else regarding your looks.
SEVEN
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I can't see the pics.....
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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Captain Morgan
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I agree with you, all but the part about the Army colors on your lanyard.
(Go Navy!) The reason I never went military was there were no pilot slots when I got out of school and I thought I'd have a better career through the civilian ranks. Because of this, I am grateful that the airlines hire from the civilian community, but the thought has dawned on me lately that maybe they need to hire predominantly from the military again.
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
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It's a vicious cycle, but frankly we're on the losing end of it.. if you can afford to subsidize your career thru CFI work and the costs of getting a job and crap wages that come with it, you aught be able to keep 2-3 pair of pants, a jacket or two and 7 or 8 shirts at the ready for work. I've seen mall security guards look better than some "Airline Pilots"..
Some of you who things we are pompous are part of the problem, not the solution.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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My quoted comment was TIC. It's a favorite line around here by people who don't take pride in their appearance.
My Grandfather many years ago when I was a little kid told me you can tell how much pride a pilot has in his profession by looking at his shoes. I didn't know what he was talking about at the time, but almost 30 years later, I still remember that conversation, and think about it everytime I put my uniform on. Of course, my Grandfather came from the era where you dressed in a jacket and hat as a passenger.
I know it's not entirely true (see AceyFO's post), but the point he was trying to get across was that people are watching, and they are judging us on our outward appearances. My shoes at the end of a 4-day may look like they were dragged behind a car after kicking rudder pedals for 15 legs, walking through snow and rain, but I now understand his point. Take some pride in your appearance.
My Grandfather many years ago when I was a little kid told me you can tell how much pride a pilot has in his profession by looking at his shoes. I didn't know what he was talking about at the time, but almost 30 years later, I still remember that conversation, and think about it everytime I put my uniform on. Of course, my Grandfather came from the era where you dressed in a jacket and hat as a passenger.
I know it's not entirely true (see AceyFO's post), but the point he was trying to get across was that people are watching, and they are judging us on our outward appearances. My shoes at the end of a 4-day may look like they were dragged behind a car after kicking rudder pedals for 15 legs, walking through snow and rain, but I now understand his point. Take some pride in your appearance.
hahaha so true. "Come meet me in the terminal I'm a bad ass Army guy and I'll kick your a$$ if your uniform is not pressed!"
To answer AceyFO: Yes, all of that makes you unprofessional! There is more to being a professional than your stick and rudder skills.
No one can be perfect 100% of the time. But if you blow it off and accept it because its someone else's fault(9 hr overnight), then perhaps you need to take a step back and reevaluate your concept of professionalism.
No one can be perfect 100% of the time. But if you blow it off and accept it because its someone else's fault(9 hr overnight), then perhaps you need to take a step back and reevaluate your concept of professionalism.
QOL_is_great:)
What the?
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I agree with you, all but the part about the Army colors on your lanyard.
Best damn football game on each year is the Army v. Navy game and ya know who I pull for!!
I have had a great time over the years flying with all sorts of pilots with wide or diverse flying backgrounds. Makes for great conversation on a trip of four to five days.
At least with the military the initial training and follow-on courses were a common thread and a known variable. I don't have to talk about the uniform wearing issue within those ranks.
I only hope that the folks that are wearing crappy uniforms and not even acting like a mature person get the picture. I don't know how every company handles uniform replacement (i.e. $400.00 per year uniform allowance), but for some pilots there is no excuse for not having serviceable uniforms.
j41driver
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It's not petty. It's about our perception in the eye of the traveling public. The OP said there were several negative comments from people around him in the terminal about the newspapers in the cockpit. I'm sure they weren't impressed with the professionalism that this crew demonstrated. That said, we all know that newspapers/magazines are in the cockpit on a regular basis...just keep that crap out of sight of the passengers.
markminus100
Active member
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Different time, different Shuttle America...
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
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That was like 2004. I remember 2004 like yesterday. Did they turnover their entire workforce inside 5 years?
PeanuckleCRJ
Hurrrrrrrr
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