L-39 goes down in TIX

[NavajoKing]

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/3/16/jet_crash_at_airshow.html

 

[The_Russian]

Looks like spatial disorientation or G-Loc.

Very Sad. That is one of my home town airshows.

 

[NavajoKing]

I didnt see any video, you would think he would have punched out.

 

[na265]

I used to spend alot of time in TIX. Talked to one of the guys I used to fly with and he said they were having the airshow this weekend. However, the show was being delayed bc wx. Very sad, God's speed.

 

[The_Russian]

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

Click on the video link. Someone filmed the whole thing. There will be two videos to choose from.

From what I understand, the ejection seats are "de-energized" for civilian use. Not sure about his aircraft.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Very sad. RIP.

From what I understand, "hot" seats are optional. They are very expensive to maintain however, so most civilian a/c have cold seats.

 

[mzaharis]

I remember reading someplace that there has not been a successful (survived) ejection from a civilian L-39 that had them enabled.

Tragic accident.

 

[414Flyer]

http://gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070221/LOCAL/70221005/1080/community

 

[moonlight]

I remember reading someplace that there has not been a successful (survived) ejection from a civilian L-39 that had them enabled.

Tragic accident.

Not true...the esteemed Robert "Hoot" Gibson, of NASA and Reno air racing fame has done it, and he's still around to tell the tale. He was instructing in an L-39 at Williams Gateway in Mesa AZ and during the course of an SFO (simulated flame out) he let the student lose control of situation and they were going to land short (and did), so he punched out, after initial impact, actually. Interestingly, the guy in front stayed w/ the jet and survived the crash. Here is a link to the NTSB report: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11106&key=1

If you know of someone affiliated w/ the CJAA (Classic Jet Aircraft Association), ask them for the latest magazine, it has a really interesting article that includes a time line of notable ejections from the inception of the ejection seat to the present. It was authored by Mike Paradise, a pilot from the Denver area that is very involved in the civilian warbird scene, currently flying a Jet Provost and a Folland Gnat.

BTW, we keep the ejection seats hot in the ones we fly...for the very reason that they exist. We brief each and every passenger on their operation. It's not as expensive as it used to be, and the FAA is now allowing 9 years between seat overhauls. I know of several civilian warbird pilots that will not fly one that has the seats deactivated, although it is generally understood that using them is reserved as the absolute last resort, when jettisoning the canopy and bailing out is no longer even an option. In the T-33, it boils down to two situations: First, a catastrophic structural failure, such as what would result from a mid-air; second, an engine fire. The push-rods for the elevators are routed above the engine, and in the event of a fire, they have a nasty habit of melting, resulting in loss of control.

 

[Axel]

There was a somewhat similar accident at HEF in the 90's. Big airshow, local pilot went into a hammerhead with his Sukhoi (sp?) at show center with almost enough energy. Reversal at the top, stalled at the bottom and killed himself in front of thousands.

The similarities don't end there. The guy was a local dentist. He had bought the airplane about a year before and had just recently been signed off for acro below the 1500 foot floor. By all accounts he was a very good pilot-all the way up until the time he went into a hammerhead with insufficient energy and no altitude margin.

I don't fly acro so I guess I can't speak to the skill of these men. I'll tell ya this, though. If I'm gonna get my teeth worked on, it will not be by a professional pilot who by all accounts is a very good amateur dentist. If I'm going to court I don't want to be represented by a professional pilot who is by all accounts a very good amateur lawyer. Airshow acrobatics should be left to professionals, as should dentistry and law.

$0.02

 

[mzaharis]

I stand corrected, Dangerboy. Thank you for the knowledgable information.

 

[TrafficInSight]

There was a somewhat similar accident at HEF in the 90's. Big airshow, local pilot went into a hammerhead with his Sukhoi (sp?) at show center with almost enough energy. Reversal at the top, stalled at the bottom and killed himself in front of thousands.

The similarities don't end there. The guy was a local dentist. He had bought the airplane about a year before and had just recently been signed off for acro below the 1500 foot floor. By all accounts he was a very good pilot-all the way up until the time he went into a hammerhead with insufficient energy and no altitude margin.

I don't fly acro so I guess I can't speak to the skill of these men. I'll tell ya this, though. If I'm gonna get my teeth worked on, it will not be by a professional pilot who by all accounts is a very good amateur dentist. If I'm going to court I don't want to be represented by a professional pilot who is by all accounts a very good amateur lawyer. Airshow acrobatics should be left to professionals, as should dentistry and law.

$0.02

uh... what?

 

[A Squared]

I'll tell ya this, though. If I'm gonna get my teeth worked on, it will not be by a professional pilot who by all accounts is a very good amateur dentist. If I'm going to court I don't want to be represented by a professional pilot who is by all accounts a very good amateur lawyer. Airshow acrobatics should be left to professionals, as should dentistry and law.

Define "Professional"

Is Julie Clark not a professional because her day job is something other than airshow performer?

Not to defend the guy, just making some observations, but he apparently does claim 7000+ hours. And he does have an ATP and a couple of types (citations and beech/mu) I'd say this takes him out of the category of 300 hr lawyer weekend warrior.


A couple of observations in no particular order:

The linked article says he is 58 yo, his myspace profile says he is 48. Journalistic error (we know those rarely happen) or lying on his myspace to appear younger? Or maybe he just hasn't updated the profile in 10 years ... if he is/was 48, that would have made his 1973 graduation from EmbryRiddle with a BS rather notable because he would have been 14, and 18 when he graduated Law School.


his myspace page says: "Eilon started flying in Israel at age 15. He was originally trained by the Israeli Air Force" then no further mention of military flying. WHat's up with that? He seems like the kind of guy who if he had completed military pilot training he would have said a little more about his military flying career. Did he wash out of UPT? Does "trained by the israeli airforce" really mean that as a 15 y/o junior air cadet he soloed a glider in the israeli equivalent of the CAP? (Nothing wrong with CAP cadet glider program, I'm just saying it's it's not quite the same as "trained by the Air Force") I see a couple of other news articles describing him as a "former israeli fighter pilot" Hmmm, have they confirmed that, or are they being suckered into an unwarrented assumption by his myspace page? I'd bet long odds that he was not an Israeli fighter pilot, but I've been wrong before.

From the article:

Krugman-Kadi crashed seconds after coming out of a cloud.

If that's accurate, that might be a pretty big contributing factor, low level loops in IMC.

According to the FAA's incident and accident webpage the Wx was:
METAR KTIX 161850Z 26024KT 7SM SCT030 BKN100 24/ A2981

I guess if one of those scattered clouds was scattered in the wrong place, it could ruin your day.

 

[The_Russian]

Define "Professional"

Is Julie Clark not a professional because her day job is something other than airshow performer?

Not to defend the guy, just making some observations, but he apparently does claim 7000+ hours. And he does have an ATP and a couple of types (citations and beech/mu) I'd say this takes him out of the category of 300 hr lawyer weekend warrior.


A couple of observations in no particular order:

The linked article says he is 58 yo, his myspace profile says he is 48. Journalistic error (we know those rarely happen) or lying on his myspace to appear younger? Or maybe he just hasn't updated the profile in 10 years ... if he is/was 48, that would have made his 1973 graduation from EmbryRiddle with a BS rather notable because he would have been 14, and 18 when he graduated Law School.


his myspace page says: "Eilon started flying in Israel at age 15. He was originally trained by the Israeli Air Force" then no further mention of military flying. WHat's up with that? He seems like the kind of guy who if he had completed military pilot training he would have said a little more about his military flying career. Did he wash out of UPT? Does "trained by the israeli airforce" really mean that as a 15 y/o junior air cadet he soloed a glider in the israeli equivalent of the CAP? (Nothing wrong with CAP cadet glider program, I'm just saying it's it's not quite the same as "trained by the Air Force") I see a couple of other news articles describing him as a "former israeli fighter pilot" Hmmm, have they confirmed that, or are they being suckered into an unwarrented assumption by his myspace page? I'd bet long odds that he was not an Israeli fighter pilot, but I've been wrong before.

From the article:

Krugman-Kadi crashed seconds after coming out of a cloud.

If that's accurate, that might be a pretty big contributing factor, low level loops in IMC.

According to the FAA's incident and accident webpage the Wx was:
METAR KTIX 161850Z 26024KT 7SM SCT030 BKN100 24/ A2981

I guess if one of those scattered clouds was scattered in the wrong place, it could ruin your day.

Good points. I seemed to get the drift from the media that he was an IAF pilot. Do you have a link to his myspace page?

 

[A Squared]

Good points. I seemed to get the drift from the media that he was an IAF pilot.

My suspicion is that he welcomed that misunderstanding. However you look at the his profile, it makes no mention of being an IAF pilot. just:

"He was originally trained by the Israeli Air Force and later attended Embry Riddle Aeronautical University."

He was at Riddle from 1970 to 1973, so we'd have to believe that between High school (of the Israeli equivelant) and 20 y/o he bacame a fighter pilot (without a degree), left the IAF and enrolled in ERAU. Maybe that's realistic in Israel, perhaps the IAF takes teenagers with no degree and makes then fighter pilots for a couple of years and then lets them go on with no commitment. It wouldn't happen in the US. Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle, but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Somehow, I think that given the tone of his page, if he'd flown an F-15 (A-4 F-4, Mirage, whatever) in the IAF, he's state that in big bold letters.

Do you have a link to his myspace page?

Here's that comes up when you search for his name on myspace. This is where I noticed the age. It has a link to his profile which has the rest of his narrative:

http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm...gman-Kadi&Submit=Find&SearchBoxID=FindAFriend