Kudos to SWAPA!!!

[RedRum]

Thanks for a great time in MCO! You guys are truly a class act. If these Roundups are any indication, AirTran pilots can expect many good times in the future.

I would like to sincerely apologize for a few things on the AT side as well. First, I think its a shame our Merger Committee showed up... again. Both sides made it clear these Roundups were not for SLI discussion, yet ALPA sent their Merger guys to both events (I don't think SWAPA brought a single MC guy).
Second, on behalf of ALL AT pilots, I'm sorry for the numerous comments by Dave VM to SWAPA guys. He's a management guy who is probably worried about his future. He said quite a few inflammatory things to different people. He even told one former-AT pilot how much he f-ed up by leaving for SWA years ago. What an embarrasment!

Thanks again SWAPA!!! Good thing lie ahead for us all!

That is great that you feel this way about SWA. I think SWA is a different airline and they DO treat people differently.

HOWEVER

Talking to most of the SWA people, they want to staple everyone at Air Tran. I am hoping that is NOT the case in the end. We need to restore some solidarity in this profession. The DAL/NWA merger has gone relatively well. I think the SWA / AAI merger can be even better if the SWA pilots are reasonable.

Don't be THAT guy that touts about how great you are and that you should be proud of being a part of your great airline. Your airline was created by more than just the pilots. You are just part of the overall equation.

Be nice to each other.

 

[GuppyWN]

Correct, which is what I mentioned a few weeks ago.

Our fleet is significantly underutilized when compared to how Southwest flies their aircraft. Our block hours per aircraft are at least 20% under Southwest's utilization.

That means, once we start flying our planes at Southwest's average block hours per day, we'll actually be understaffed and need to hire at least 200 people.

FWIW

How come ya'll have more than an extra pilot per plane compared to us if you're underutilized?

Seems pretty lopsided.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

I think the SWA / AAI merger can be even better if the SWA pilots are reasonable.

What is reasonable?

Gup

 

[Slug]

Reasonable is to give them a raise and mingle them into your seniority such that your upgrade is severely affected. You get more pain and they get a nice little check.

 

[Lear70]

How come ya'll have more than an extra pilot per plane compared to us if you're underutilized?

Seems pretty lopsided.

Gup

I don't know, I just fly 'em. Right now we're running near 40% reserve coverage for February. Not kidding.

Of course, it *IS* February and the schedule is pretty dramatically pared down. Once the summer schedule is here, we'll see what it shakes out to.

We appear to schedule pilots much more like a Legacy carrier hub-and-spoke model than like Southwest, as not NEARLY as much flying is point-to-point. Almost every trip I have hits a base every leg (either originating in a base or landing in a base) if you include BWI (which might as well be a base for as many planes as we route through there compared to MKE).

That's one of the reasons our schedules end up with fewer days off to get 80 hours of flying in and why we have some long overnights in at least one city per trip on average, sometimes 2. It's also one of the reasons we have 3-4 hour productivity sits in airports sometimes because you don't connect with a "bank" and have to wait until the next bank of flying to go back out. My last trip had one every day, and a buddy had TWO 3-hour sits in one day with only 3 legs of flying for 4.5 hours of block on a 12 hour duty day.

 

[S3sundowner]

Surely if you increase your work hours 20% that would take care of the extra 200 "new hires". Hopefully you're an aai negotiator.

 

[dicko]

Surely if you increase your work hours 20% that would take care of the extra 200 "new hires". Hopefully you're an aai negotiator.

I see you've decided to stop pretending that you work for JBLU ? Perhaps you could explain your motivation for the deceit ?

 

[Lear70]

Surely if you increase your work hours 20% that would take care of the extra 200 "new hires". Hopefully you're an aai negotiator.

It doesn't work like that. We're not talking about pilot flying hours, we're talking about aircraft utilization.

If you've never worked on a Scheduling Committee or done pairing work, it would take two pages to explain how staffing models are generated around aircraft block hours.

Besides, I already fly 80-85 hours a month. I can't increase my flying 20% a month and neither can the rest of our pilots. On our busy months, even the reserves fly 70-80 hours. We're simply not staffed for the way Southwest operates, it's just that simple.

 

[CatfishVT9]

How come ya'll have more than an extra pilot per plane compared to us if you're underutilized?

Seems pretty lopsided.

Gup

That's due to the approximately 25% "Crew Schedules Department Buffoonery factor" that SWA doesn't need to account for. This was demonstrated during last week's ice storm. Skeds had no idea where a significant number of crews were even though they were right where they were supposed to be according to their assigned schedule.

Most of us can't wait for the purge in Orlando to begin.

 

[Ty Webb]

That's due to the approximately 25% "Crew Schedules Department Buffoonery factor" .. . . . . Most of us can't wait for the purge in Orlando to begin.

He's not kidding. The buffoonery is legendary.

 

[dh82dvr]

Well you have to understand all the metrics of the tabornomics scheduling matrix. If things get f'ed up, it is because the a-hole pilots wont answer their phones or work 25 hrs a day.

 

[dh82dvr]

Reasonable is to give them a raise and mingle them into your seniority such that your upgrade is severely affected. You get more pain and they get a nice little check.

If aai aircraft are under utilized requiring hiring (and therfore upgrading) and swa seems to think that the combined swa/aai will provied growth (therfore hiring and upgrading) then does it not follow that your upgrade should be severly affected in a positive way.

How long would you expect to wait to upgrade now (ie no swa/aai merger)?

 

[texman]

It doesn't work like that. We're not talking about pilot flying hours, we're talking about aircraft utilization.

If you've never worked on a Scheduling Committee or done pairing work, it would take two pages to explain how staffing models are generated around aircraft block hours.

Besides, I already fly 80-85 hours a month. I can't increase my flying 20% a month and neither can the rest of our pilots. On our busy months, even the reserves fly 70-80 hours. We're simply not staffed for the way Southwest operates, it's just that simple.

That just sucks brother. We bottom feeder reserve guys block about 50-68 avg and get paid 105-110 because we go over our guarantee. Plus still get 15 days off a month.

 

[texman]

That's due to the approximately 25% "Crew Schedules Department Buffoonery factor" that SWA doesn't need to account for. This was demonstrated during last week's ice storm. Skeds had no idea where a significant number of crews were even though they were right where they were supposed to be according to their assigned schedule.

Most of us can't wait for the purge in Orlando to begin.

Trust me our sched knows where you are every minute of the day. The more I talk to the AT guys on the road and ask about MGT and sched they have some f'ed up stories. Our scheds are great, I think it is all about how you treat them in Dal. If you pop off, I think you go on a special list. Hell I got a 330 am wake up call from a sweet little texas voice saying " good morning honey time to go to work". I said "honey quit hogging the sheets". She said I wish I was but I am in Dal baby.LOL! Thats the fun we have.

 

[Lear70]

Haven't had that much fun with schedulers since I was at a regional and knew them fairly well after sitting reserve for 3 years straight.

Have to admit, your reserve kicks butt, no doubt about it.