Kudo's to AA

[lowecur]

They recorded an operating profit of $103M, which excludes 1 time charges. This is the second Q in a row for them that they have had an operating profit.

Arpey said they continue to tinker with the model, and will restructure their Miami Hub to benefit the high profitability of the South American/Latin America/Carribean Market.

They have regained the confidence of the credit markets and I look for them to seriously consider an order of E class a/c by the end of the year. The American Eagle head honcho has already offered to staff these a/c with his pilots. Don't know how the scope clauses play out with mainline, but it could be interesting discussion.

 

[PacoPollo]

80/80

 

[Snakum]

A couple related questions from a curious outsider ...

Why does Eagle fly the ATR in the islands, and not an ERJ? Is it a issue of runway/facilities, or is it the loads (though the ATR-72 is higher capacity than some RJ configs)? Are the ERJ 135 numbers comparable to the ATR?

Couldn't an expanded Eagle presence in MIA serve many of the island destinations now served by mainline AA aircraft (not advocating this BTW .. no flames please ) or does the ERJ lack the legs to move pax around the Carib?

Just curious ...

Minhtronic

 

[G4G5]

"AMR ended the fourth quarter
with $3.1 billion in total cash and short-term investments "


Why does Eagle fly the ATR in the islands, and not an ERJ? Is it a issue of runway/facilities, or is it the loads (though the ATR-72 is higher capacity than some RJ configs)? Are the ERJ 135 numbers comparable to the ATR?

G4G5
All flying above 70 seats belongs to AA mainline pilots. The ATR72 has an exemption to the SCOPE clause of the contract. Replacing it with the ERJ would require AMR to fly the same route with 22 less seats. Maybe someone else knows for sure but I don't think that the Eagle ERJ 135's are over water equiped.


Couldn't an expanded Eagle presence in MIA serve many of the island destinations now served by mainline AA aircraft (not advocating this BTW .. no flames please ) or does the ERJ lack the legs to move pax around the Carib?

Just curious ...

G4G5
Sure Eagle could but they are restricted to 50 seats. Typical island flights can support larger equipment.

 

[Snakum]

Thanks G, I really appreciate your taking the time to reply.

So if I understand correctly: the loads in the area would definitely support an ERJ-170 or -190 flying with increased frequency out of MIA, and the -170 and -190 have the range to cover it (and also assuming they comply with Part 121s overwater requirements for equipment on board, etc.), yet only the ATR-72 is exempted from the scope restrictions.

I often wonder how these things work in the big leagues ... thanks much!

Minh

 

[lowecur]

compromise???????

AA needs to compete with B6 with either a B scale on the 100 seater, or turn the flying over to American Eagle. I don't think the scope was changed on the renegotiated contract, so concessions would need to be made by mainline group. A good solution may be giving a 50/50 deal with the 190's to mainline and the other 50% to Eagle that would involve the 170/175 models. Eagle is definitely interested per this letter:

October 17, 2003

Mr. Peter Bowler, President
American Eagle Airlines
1700 West 20th Street
PO Box 612527
DFW Airport, Texas 74261-2527

Dear Peter,

On Oct. 17, Gerard Arpey was quoted in a Dallas Morning News article as saying that he would like to sit down with the unions "to try and figure out if we need a 100-seat airplane."

Knowing that AMR has a corporate interest in this issue, the pilots of American Eagle, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, would like to inform you of our interest in placing larger aircraft, such as the EMB 190 at our carrier. We believe the American Eagle cost structure provides an inherent advantage in any effort to compete in markets with lower cost carriers such as JetBlue Airways.

American Eagle is a robust company that can expand nicely into markets that cannot be profitably served by American Airlines as it is currently structured. With the advent of Small Jet aircraft in the 70-seat-plus range, we believe that Eagle is uniquely positioned to take advantage of the growth in this particular market sector. Additionally, since American Eagle already operates Embraer aircraft, transitioning pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, and ramp workers to the EMB 170/175/190/195 poses obvious advantages due to Eagle's cost structure and commonality with our current Embraer aircraft.

We would be happy to discuss the details of this matter with you at your convenience.

Sincerely,

/s/

Capt. Herb Mark
Chairman
Eagle ALPA MEC

 

[General Lee]

Comair will try this next.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[justApilot]

I think the real reason why the ATR is used in the Caribbean is for its ability to carry more cargo.

 

[Mad Dog 80]

I believe the reason for the ATR being in MIA is because the ATR does not handle icing very well.

 

[pipejockey]

I believe the reason for the ATR being in MIA is because the ATR does not handle icing very well.

I think thats a misconception. Coex didnt have any problems with them did they? And they flew them out of newark in large numbers i believe. I dont know if they were in cleveland as well...anyone?

 

[Snakum]

Heard second-hand from an old (and bitter ) Simmons/Eagle Captain in RDU ...

After the ATR crash in IL in which ice formed behind the boots, an AD was issued for modification which insured this couldn't happen again. And since that time Eagle, Coex, and TSA have flown thousands of hours in icing in the ATR42/72 without a hitch.

I think the "ATR can only be used in the Carib" myth is exactly that ... an urban legend.

Now that freight lines such as Mountain Air Cargo are getting a few of them, perhaps my old, career-changing, wannabe a$$ will get a chance to actually fly one before I die.

Minh "Still Hopeful" Thong

 

[justApilot]

The ATR's were in the Caribbean prior to the Roselawn accident.

 

[satpak77]

Congrats to AA

Congrats to AA.

Hell, congrats to ANY carrier who is improving financially. We are talking about moms and dads and kids in little league, I hope all the freakin carriers recover.

Furthermore, the last thing the applicant pool needs is a carrier with 5000 boeing/MD/Airbus typed guys hitting the street on the same day

congrats

 

[JJJ]

The news is reporting that it was a loss, not a profit. Which one is it?

Additionally, since American Eagle already operates Embraer aircraft, transitioning pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, and ramp workers to the EMB 170/175/190/195 poses obvious advantages due to Eagle's cost structure and commonality with our current Embraer aircraft.

Yeah right. It is a different type, so pilots will have to go through a full training program. What's the difference between an AA ramper or FA and an Eagle ramper or FA learning how to work a new aircraft? The only advantage that Eagle has is cost structure. I can't imagine AA pilots allowing more of their jobs go to Eagle growth.

 

[resistance]

A rational answer to why the RJ's aren't down in SJU or MIA is that no other airline (RJ Carrier) flys jets down on the islands. That may change in the future but historically no other carrier has taken RJ down on the islands.

The other factor to the question is weight. The Super ATR 72 carries over 4000 lbs of cargo and will take all 68 people with it. I seriously don't believe that any RJ will be capable of hauling that kind of lift out of a 5000 ft strip.

Speaking from experience I doubt the RJ could fly to 1/2 the destinations that Eagle flies into in the Carribean. (IE Tortola, Dominica, Anguilla, Ponce PR, Santiago DR...etc)

 

[eaglefly]

Agreed. The reason that the ATR is in MIA and SJU (Gee, southern ops ?) is really financial.

A.) The ATR can handle cargo CAPACITY and VOLUME capabilites that the EMB cannot meet (especially with the high temp/runway situations in the caribbean) and the stage lengths would not give much advantage to a jet.

B.) The "expanded" deice boot mod as a result of the post Roselawn investigation did not give AMR (or COEX as they put theirs down in IAH) enough confidence to operate the airplane in extended harsh winter conditions - southern operations minimize risk and liability.

A little of both.

 

[satpak77]

Also

As we all know, the PAX pay the bills.

Technical arguments of ATR icing capabilities aside, when John Q. Public Passenger sees the CNN expose on ATR icing accident, he no longer wants to fly ATR's in icing weather.

Pilot lounge and hangar talk about ATR capabilities aside, I would opinion that Eagle/COEX management sent the ATR's to obvious warm weather environments largerly due to above reason.

 

[Snakum]

Pilot lounge and hangar talk about ATR capabilities aside, I would opinion that Eagle/COEX management sent the ATR's to obvious warm weather environments largerly due to above reason.

Wow ... that's pretty interesting. I had no idea that the public perception carried that much weight, this long after the incident.

Also ... very interesting about the ATR capabilities v.s. the ERJ. Thanks for the info.

Minh

 

[satpak77]

dont know about "that long after the incident" (it is 2004 now) but believe me, soccer moms and ignorant dads still talk about "isn't that the ATR airplane that crashed in ice"

Once Eagle/COEX moved an entire fleet to warm weather climates, its hard to "move back" once the chitter chatter from the public settled down. Thats why they have stayed.

Yes, also cargo capability, A/C performance into small strips, etc.

Observe both MIA and IAH are sea-level areas, serving airports that are also mostly sea-level or not far from it, in generally warm climates.

Also, a few RJ segments are actually money-loosers for the airline, but since it puts the people in some warm seats and exposes them to that brand, its better than the PAX not flying AT ALL (a complete loss of rev) and driving an hour to fly someone else (a loss of potential customer exposure).

 

[PacoPollo]

A rational answer to why the RJ's aren't down in SJU or MIA is that no other airline (RJ Carrier) flys jets down on the islands. That may change in the future but historically no other carrier has taken RJ down on the islands

Speaking from experience I doubt the RJ could fly to 1/2 the destinations that Eagle flies into in the Carribean. (IE Tortola, Dominica, Anguilla, Ponce PR, Santiago DR...etc)

Ive have seen Air France 145's down there I believe Air Martinique.