Knee defender $21.95. Diverted and kicked off for acting like 5 year olds...priceless

[waveflyer]

Or rather..hopefully, $50,000 ($25,000 FAA fines x2) check made payable to united for the cost of the divert

Flight diverted after fight over knee space
Associated Press, AP 10:12 p.m. EDT August 25, 2014

(Photo: AP)
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NEW YORK ? Airline passengers have come to expect a tiny escape from the confined space of today's packed planes: the ability to recline their seat a few inches. When one passenger was denied that bit of personal space Sunday, it led to a heated argument and the unscheduled landing of their plane, just halfway to its destination.

The fight started on a United Airlines flight because one passenger was using the Knee Defender, a $21.95 gadget that attaches to a passenger's tray table and prevents the person in front of them from reclining.

The Federal Aviation Administration leaves it up to individual airlines to set rules about the device. United Airlines said it prohibits use of the device, like all major U.S. airlines. Spirit Airlines and Allegiant Air take the reclining mechanisms out of their seats, leaving them permanently upright.

The dispute on United Flight 1462 from Newark, New Jersey, to Denver escalated to the point where the airline decided to divert to Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, according to Transportation Security Administration spokesman Ross Feinstein.

Chicago police and TSA officers met the flight, spoke to the passengers ? a man and a woman, both 48 ? and "deemed it a customer service issue," Feinstein said. The TSA would not name the passengers.

The plane then continued to Denver without them, arriving 1 hour and 38 minutes late, according to the airline's website.

The Federal Aviation Administration can impose a civil fine of up to $25,000 for passengers who are unruly. In this case, no arrest was made, according to Chicago airport spokesman Gregg Cunningham.

The fight started when the male passenger, seated in a middle seat of Row 12, used the Knee Defender to stop the woman in front of him from reclining while he was on his laptop, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the situation who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak.

A flight attendant asked him to remove the device and he refused. The woman then stood up, turned around and threw a cup of water at him, the official says. That's when United decided to land in Chicago. The two passengers were not allowed to continue to Denver.

Both passengers were sitting in United's Economy Plus section, the part of the plane that has four more inches of legroom than the rest of coach.

 

[acpilot]

What kind of super ****************************** uses a "knee defender"?

 

[Flopgut]

Wave: If memory serves, SWA will keep track of certain passengers behavior and in some cases not sell them a ticket after an incident? That's something I've always thought was a great idea. Let's see if passengers like knee defender can keep jobs if their employers can't use certain airlines to get their stoopid asses around.

Obviously law enforcement isn't going to do anything; We're right back to those days again. Locking the seat isn't a bad idea either.

 

[densoo]

What kind of super ****************************** uses a "knee defender"?

No kidding. A folded inflight magazine works the same.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

I've personally never used knee defender, but love the idea. United seat pitch is already tight enough without having the passenger in front of me slamming their seat back as far as it will go and rendering my workspace useless. He should have compromised with the other passenger and adjusted his knee defender to allow partial recline. Yes, the knee defender actually let's you adjust how much or how little seat recline you want to let your seat mate have.

 

[dollacrackho]

Agreed saluki. I don't really ever sleep on planes and if i do and I don't need to recline my seat to do it. What's more annoying than having someone jam their seat as far back as it will go so you can stare at their head for the whole flight. Then god forbid if you want to watch a movie or do work on your laptop . Just get rid of the recline. Less maintenance too. On a side note i think 100% of bald dudes with really shiny heads recline their seats all the way back on every flight.

 

[eaglesview]

I've personally never used knee defender, but love the idea. United seat pitch is already tight enough without having the passenger in front of me slamming their seat back as far as it will go and rendering my workspace useless. He should have compromised with the other passenger and adjusted his knee defender to allow partial recline. Yes, the knee defender actually let's you adjust how much or how little seat recline you want to let your seat mate have.

He was in economy plus. I am 6'3" and have plenty of room in economy plus. Guy was just an a$$.

 

[waveflyer]

He was in economy plus. I am 6'3" and have plenty of room in economy plus. Guy was just an a$$.

Yep^^^

The lady too though

Threw a cup of water in his face?? Over reclining 2"???

It's not like these are lazy boys here

"You're sitting in a chair...in the sky...!...!... (Whines)'But it doesn't go back a lot..' "

 

[jonjuan]

P

If someone reclines, I either push my knees constantly into the lower seat, turn the air vent on full toward their head, or open up the usatoday all the way touching their head and constantly rattle it around. 9/10 times they get the hint and unrecline.

 

[JECKEL]

I wonder if this "knee defender" guy was reclining his seat into the guy behind him.

 

[doh]

I wonder if this "knee defender" guy was reclining his seat into the guy behind him.

I guarantee it!:laugh:

 

[jonjuan]

I wonder if this "knee defender" guy was reclining his seat into the guy behind him.

Lol-he probably was also using the "recline enforcer."

 

[LJ45]

that knee thing shoud be illegal. You are tampering with an airplane in my opinion.

 

[Turtle21]

I've personally never used knee defender, but love the idea. United seat pitch is already tight enough without having the passenger in front of me slamming their seat back as far as it will go and rendering my workspace useless. He should have compromised with the other passenger and adjusted his knee defender to allow partial recline. Yes, the knee defender actually let's you adjust how much or how little seat recline you want to let your seat mate have.

Out of courtesy, I never recline my seat unless in 1st class.

I am too cheap to buy Knee Defender. If someone reclines into my knees I just keep moving my knees around poking about 1.5 inches into their spine and miraculously they adjust their seat... sometimes my knees end up 2.5 inches into their spine or or sometimes -0.50 inches.. I don't care. Its their choice. They paid for the seat and it comes with adjustable spine intrusion.

 

[crxpilot]

you guys are much nicer about it. I just hock a lugey into their hair unless they are bald and only then I paint a number or letter on their head for everybody behind them to learn for the day.

 

[DCAA320]

that knee thing shoud be illegal. You are tampering with an airplane in my opinion.

Get over yourself.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I go with the flow. These folks, the good, the bad and the ugly are the reason I get a paycheck and they've suffered enough to get to that seat. The last thing I want to do is start a range war over the seat.

I've sat on the second jumpseat for 4 hours before. I can certainly tolerate someone's reclining seat back.

GTFU

 

[Dan Roman]

I go with the flow. These folks, the good, the bad and the ugly are the reason I get a paycheck and they've suffered enough to get to that seat. The last thing I want to do is start a range war over the seat.

I've sat on the second jumpseat for 4 hours before. I can certainly tolerate someone's reclining seat back.

GTFU

Well said Room! This I all about a couple narcissistic whiny morons that couldn't tolerate being civil for a few hours while they were being safely flown to their destination at 500 mph for just a few dollars.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Well said Room! This I all about a couple narcissistic whiny morons that couldn't tolerate being civil for a few hours while they were being safely flown to their destination at 500 mph for just a few dollars.

Good point, Dan.

Roomwithaview is only a narcissistic whiny moron when it comes to our union not doing exactly what he thinks it should. Then he's world class. Other than that, he's a peach. Hey Room, are you sure you're not Wayne Stamps?--you remember, the old SWAPA VP who used to tell new-hire classes prior to 9/11 that they were stupid for coming to Southwest instead of the legacies?

A union is what you put into it. Whether it's SWAPA or ALPA. Don't like it? Then work to change it. And if nobody cares about your ideas or votes for you when you run? Then bitch and moan, and compare it to the Nazis. That's a good plan.

Bubba

 

[Roomwithaview]

Bubs

Good point, Dan.

Roomwithaview is only a narcissistic whiny moron when it comes to our union not doing exactly what he thinks it should. Then he's world class. Other than that, he's a peach. Hey Room, are you sure you're not Wayne Stamps?--you remember, the old SWAPA VP who used to tell new-hire classes prior to 9/11 that they were stupid for coming to Southwest instead of the legacies?

A union is what you put into it. Whether it's SWAPA or ALPA. Don't like it? Then work to change it. And if nobody cares about your ideas or votes for you when you run? Then bitch and moan, and compare it to the Nazis. That's a good plan.

Bubba

Yeah that urban legend really put a hurting on ole Gaylon's career. Pull up the swapa financials for the last umpteen years and see how bad things are for him. Pay particular attention to the trip pull/comp time and the payout per committee.

You just keep patting the boys at swapa on the fanny for the bang up job they're doing.

 

[Flopgut]

Shouldn't they have at least been arrested?

 

[acaTerry]

It's always easy for me. I just turn around, look them in the eye (Egad! Eye contact in the digital age?!) and let them know I'm coming back. I then let it back slooooowly. If it looks tight, I just leave the seat upright. A little courtesy, instead of letting it flop all at once into their knees without warning, is the key.
Anyone would get pissed at the the guy who slams it full back the second you leave the runway on takeoff.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yeah that urban legend really put a hurting on ole Gaylon's career. Pull up the swapa financials for the last umpteen years and see how bad things are for him. Pay particular attention to the trip pull/comp time and the payout per committee.

You just keep patting the boys at swapa on the fanny for the bang up job they're doing.

Urban legend? I sat there in new-hire class wondering what I had got myself into when he told us that.

Bubba

 

[Roomwithaview]

Kernal

Urban legend? I sat there in new-hire class wondering what I had got myself into when he told us that.

Bubba

Please repeat it word for word.

No fan of Stamps but I asked him point blank what he said at it was nowhere near to the myth.

BTW Did you pull up those financials?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Please repeat it word for word.

No fan of Stamps but I asked him point blank what he said at it was nowhere near to the myth.

BTW Did you pull up those financials?

Like I said, this was prior to 9/11 when we were paid a lot less than the other carriers. And it's not a myth--I was there for one of the classes he talked to. He came in for the SWAPA meet-and-greet portion and basically bad-mouthed the company for a few minutes, then complained about what it would be like if he had gone to a different company. He then whined about, "hating the idea of having to start over as a 35-year old F/O again." That's an exact quote, Room; I remember because we all looked at each other, and I thought that he really ought to know his audience--the average age of our class was about 39, and we were damn happy to be brand spanking new F/Os. And here he was, a relatively senior captain at 35 years old, complaining. And then he said that "we all would have been much better off if we had gone to American or United instead." You're right, he didn't actually call us "morons," but that was the implication in his speech, as quoted verbatim above in my quotes.

If he's denying it now, then it's only because it's politically expedient for him to do so.

And no, I didn't pull the financials--but I know a lot of union guys rake in the bucks. I don't need to raise my blood pressure. I'm assuming it's the same at APA, ALPA, and every other union--there's always people there to line their pockets as much or more than they are to serve. You know, kinda' like in any government or governing body. BTW, that's probably why Stamps denies saying any of that stuff now. If he admitted it, he probably wouldn't be able to stay on the union dole.

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

I've flown with many who had the same first person experience.
Enough to know that it isn't urban legend.
I didn't know he was so young at the time though!
That's crazy

 

[FR8mastr]

I also wish they would do away with the recline... I'm 6"5' and having the seat in front slammed into my knees is way worse than just a "comfort" issue. It freakin hurts.

 

[Hikoushi]

My personal favorite (only used if the passenger ahead slams his seat back into my laptop suddenly) is to lean forward so my breath goes over the seat onto the back of their head, and then start sneezing and coughing, while talking about my last "trip to Shanghai" or wherever the current Bird Flu outbreak is occurring. Immediate results.

Yes, we must have deference for the people who pay our bills BUT, that does not excuse a guy if he is acting like a dick and being totally inconsiderate of the people around and behind him. No need to put up with that.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Bubs

Like I said, this was prior to 9/11 when we were paid a lot less than the other carriers

And much like now, we were in the middle of a contentious Section Six battle with a management team that refused to acknowledge that woeful pay disparity while SWA was once again making record profits and every one in the useless overhead department(s) were reaping the benefits while they expected the pilots to continue to take it in the shorts.

And it's not a myth--I was there for one of the classes he talked to. He came in for the SWAPA meet-and-greet portion and basically bad-mouthed the company for a few minutes, then complained about what it would be like if he had gone to a different company.

And, as Wayne told it to me, after he had given the pitch about where we were in regards to compensation and section six a member of the audience asked, "So, would I have been better off if I had gone to United?" Wayne replied, "Based on those numbers and current pay, benefits and career expectations at other carriers, Yes."

Sounded like Asked and Answered to me.

He then whined about, "hating the idea of having to start over as a 35-year old F/O again." That's an exact quote, Room; I remember because we all looked at each other, and I thought that he really ought to know his audience--the average age of our class was about 39, and we were damn happy to be brand spanking new F/Os. And here he was, a relatively senior captain at 35 years old, complaining. And then he said that "we all would have been much better off if we had gone to American or United instead." You're right, he didn't actually call us "morons," but that was the implication in his speech, as quoted verbatim above in my quotes.

I was not there, so I have to go on your first person account. In my new hire class, Kramer came in an laid out the Stock Option distribution after being questioned by a very sharp member of our audience. I could have given two $hit$ about options at that point, was just glad to finally have been hired by the company I wanted to be with and thought my classmate a tool for being a d*ck to the union rep while they were having us over for beer and snacks. He specifically pointed out the disparate financial differences in those that received the now equivalent of 40K options at a strike price of $3.95 and the measly amount we were getting that had a strike price of somewhere upwards of $20.

Kramer's exact words were, "Well, when you get into office you can negotiate yourselves a better deal." That's when I realized swapa was all about the most senior and the junior guys be damned. The above distribution was ultimately worth (to them) around upwards of a million bucks a pilot. In those days they put the stock price at the top of the WX pack and many captains I flew with took great pleasure in showing you (on paper) how many tens of thousands they made from one leg to the next because the stock had gone up a couple of points. I sloughed this off too because:
1. I don't normally spool myself up over what someone says regarding their lot in life vs mine.

2. Realized that these guys got here first and benefited from the pyramid scheme that was the Stock Options.

If he's denying it now, then it's only because it's politically expedient for him to do so.

This just makes me laugh because this issue has been following Wayne around for years and based on the amount of swapa work he's managed to procure since then it certainly hasn't hurt him politically. Case in point he's easily pulling down around a million every three years for doing what I consider to be an abysmal job.

And no, I didn't pull the financials--but I know a lot of union guys rake in the bucks. I don't need to raise my blood pressure. I'm assuming it's the same at APA, ALPA, and every other union--there's always people there to line their pockets as much or more than they are to serve. You know, kinda' like in any government or governing body. BTW, that's probably why Stamps denies saying any of that stuff now. If he admitted it, he probably wouldn't be able to stay on the union dole.

Which astounds me because these guys are controlling you future in a big way and is a helluva lot more important than getting your panties in a wad over what someone said to you as a new hire. Telling, since it seems to me your priorities are quite skewed.

That having been said, thanks for sharing. It wouldn't surprise me if Wayne fudged the facts. My respect level for him has gone severely downhill since he was VP under Jon Weaks.

Eye on the ball is what I think you've been alluding to and I can't stress that enough as we continue to struggle to reap the benefits of SLs 1 thru 18 with an even stingier mgt group.

To others, sorry for the ginormous thread creep.

 

[LJ45]

Get over yourself.

The FAA is on it...just watch what happens and then you'll see ...Buddy.