King of the Union

[jetlag7]

They're not exactly playing by the usual " we're losing money so give us concessions" playbook are they....

Not yet. Wait until some time after the BRK shareholders meeting wraps up. I have a feeling the "doom and gloom" machine will spool-up shortly after.

 

[BentOver]

Not yet. Wait until some time after the BRK shareholders meeting wraps up. I have a feeling the "doom and gloom" machine will spool-up shortly after.

Very possible.. My only counter to that theory is that being part of a publically traded company, shareholders will expect Netjets to be a money making operation. (look at any article written about NJA. It's all positive for how the operation is doing since the '09 downturn)

By simply "trying" to show poor profits (doom and gloom) it very well could tick off a lot of shareholders, put WB in a tight spot with them, and also put their own jobs (management) on the hot seat. Not putting it above management, but I think it becomes more of a impression issue when you're dealing with a Berkshire Hathaway entity.

And much like '05, the pilots really do control what could possibly doom the company. The pilots are the front lines, the make or break people in the whole operation. Pilots get pissed, owners leave. It is that simple. Hopefully management has learned that you can't walk all over your bread and butter. ( I don't advocate a "burn it down" mentallity. The job is worth more to everyone now than in '05) I simply hope that management realizes the usual airline tactics don't work in the richy rich fractional world. There won't be Billy Bob and his family to replace owners like at the airlines. In the airlines there's always replacement ticket buyers. Not in our little world of aviation.

In the end I don't see a concessionary contract. I don't see a windfall either. I see some positive changes for the pilots. And maybe a few changes for management, but definitely not concessionary. Anything less than what the pilots have now simply won't pass. And a strike will doom the company. Management and the Union both know that.

 

[AftCG182]

I simply hope that management realizes the usual airline tactics don't work in the richy rich fractional world. There won't be Billy Bob and his family to replace owners like at the airlines. In the airlines there's always replacement ticket buyers. Not in our little world of aviation.

Not trying to hijack your thread; just want to comment on this one point.

There's no shortage of rich folks out there. There might not be a bunch of replacement "Billy Bobs" out there, but there are plenty of "William Roberts" that will do anything to avoid the misery and inefficiency of scheduled airline travel. They'll resort to the various charter cards if Fractional shares won't fit into the budget any more.

We're almost through this economic down-turn. Factor in the looming pilot shortage, and good times are just around the corner for all of is in the Fractional world. :beer:

 

[BentOver]

Not trying to hijack your thread; just want to comment on this one point.

There's no shortage of rich folks out there. There might not be a bunch of replacement "Billy Bobs" out there, but there are plenty of "William Roberts" that will do anything to avoid the misery and inefficiency of scheduled airline travel. They'll resort to the various charter cards if Fractional shares won't fit into the budget any more.

We're almost through this economic down-turn. Factor in the looming pilot shortage, and good times are just around the corner for all of is in the Fractional world. :beer:

:beer: (there's no thumbs up smiley guy)

I wish there were a ton more wealthy people. I think as the CCI improves, employment numbers improve etc.. The wealthy will be "inclined" to flash a little more cash without the guilt or feeling of being in the public eye ala the big 3 car company guys.

I share your optomistic predictions as well. If you look at 2005-beginning of '08... Flying was at an alltime high. Over the next few years it could very well approach those times again. It would be very short sighted to to think corporate aviation will never boom again. It took the deepest recession since the 30's to bring it all down. It will return again. If the recession would only have been half as bad we'd all still be high on the hog...

 

[squonk]

Need and want are two distinctly different things.. You want him... Nobody needs him... No one person is that important...Everyone is replaceable.

Example: Out of the 2500+ active pilots, there are some very very smart individuals. Many who have done this stuff before. Many who have done negotiations for things much more important than a Union contract. There are many others who could handle the task. Whether they want to be part of the goat rope is another story. I'd assume that those same smart people are also smart enough to stay far away.

I'll ask you...as I've asked many.

WHO, out of that 2500+ are you pushing forward? I keep hearing there are many but nobody has actually given us a name. Now I doubt you have a name in mind and even if you do there is no guarantee that person is going to throw their hat in the ring.

Not trying to start a pizz'n contest but the recallers seem to be very myopic on this recall. There is nothing beyond the "get Luthi" mantra that I've seen.

Please set me straight if you and yours have a plan.

 

[BentOver]

I'll ask you...as I've asked many.

WHO, out of that 2500+ are you pushing forward? I keep hearing there are many but nobody has actually given us a name. Now I doubt you have a name in mind and even if you do there is no guarantee that person is going to throw their hat in the ring.

Not trying to start a pizz'n contest but the recallers seem to be very myopic on this recall. There is nothing beyond the "get Luthi" mantra that I've seen.

Please set me straight if you and yours have a plan.

I haven't worked at the company for over 2 years.. It would be like asking you who you think should run for office at SWAPA.....

There are a list of criteria I know I'd ask of any candidate if I had the opportunity in a crew lounge in TEB.... I won't have that opportunity this election or for any election in the next couple years, so no need in getting into that laundry list...

I will say I really hope the people who have resigned to fly in East Asia made the right decision based on what furlough rumors have been brought up by Luthi, which still have not been proven true.

 

[squonk]

I haven't worked at the company for over 2 years.. It would be like asking you who you think should run for office at SWAPA.....

There are a list of criteria I know I'd ask of any candidate if I had the opportunity in a crew lounge in TEB.... I won't have that opportunity this election or for any election in the next couple years, so no need in getting into that laundry list...

I will say I really hope the people who have resigned to fly in East Asia made the right decision based on what furlough rumors have been brought up by Luthi, which still have not been proven true.

I understand your concerns but I would say the folks that went to Asia made a decision based on what they needed to do for their situation or their families situation, not on a moving abstract return date of the company (I'm hearing '14 or '15 now) or strategic posturing by the union.

I'm not singling you out, just a question that I ask of the recallers and to date it hasn't been answered with even a reasonable response, other than the aforementioned "Luthi's gotta go". I get you're out of the loop but believe me, there are people that have access to the board that are not even close to being informed.

 

[nordo_2]

I haven't worked at the company for over 2 years.. It would be like asking you who you think should run for office at SWAPA.....

There are a list of criteria I know I'd ask of any candidate if I had the opportunity in a crew lounge in TEB.... I won't have that opportunity this election or for any election in the next couple years, so no need in getting into that laundry list...

I will say I really hope the people who have resigned to fly in East Asia made the right decision based on what furlough rumors have been brought up by Luthi, which still have not been proven true.

I have heard of folks leaving for more than just an east asian carrier. Whether they were influenced by Luthi or not, is irrelevant. To think they used Luthi as their sole source for whatever decision making process, is ridiculous. I can think of plenty justifiable reasons why a junior SIC would leave, devoid of Luthi.

These are mostly junior SICs who traded in the black berry for a career. Anyone who jumped onto an east asian carrier is probably an airline type, who prefers that side of the house. If they don’t like whatever asian airline their at, they can always come back, and have a resume behind them. Captain part 121 big airplane; or sic part 135.

NJ offers a frustrating experience for anyone who value’s career progression(i.e. junior SICs), and/or the airline types who were more airline than corporate, that got sucked into the NJ pipe dream. I suspect Luthi was an insignificant determinant.

 

[BentOver]

I can agree with those assumptions... Any experienced person should know not to make decisions based on a 411...

I do however believe that many of the comments Luthi has made have not been 100% factual or without alterior motives... And I also believe that there are many SIC's who would have jumped ship based on his comments if it were not for the simple fact that jobs are very scarce.... There were a few PIC's (union folks) who said they were putting their hat into the SWA ring last year.. I think they found getting hired, even as a PIC at Netjets, proved very difficult seeing how not one of them left....

Either way, I don't believe his tactics are his best asset. I have no doubt he has the ability to tell management to shove it concerning CBA adherence. But a leader should be well rounded in all aspects of negotiating AND dealing with management. I think we can agree that his social skills with the company don't prove to be beneficial. Especially when it pertains to knowing what the heck is going on.....

I agree that many airline types got sucked into the pipe dream. However, being even an SIC at NJA has it's many benefits... If you plan right you'll still retire a millionaire (given sound financial sense, enough time, my max input plus company match was the same as a PIC's), still get to live wherever you want opposed to spending days a year commuting, still eat better than at an airline, enjoy nicer perks and nicer hotels, and still do more interesting trips. IMO:beer: