King Air SIC time

[upndsky]

A friend of mine recently interviewed at a regional. One of the pilots in his group had around 700ME, half as a copilot in a B-1900 used as a corporate shuttle. From what she told him, they gave her a hard time about the SIC time she'd logged and told her she couldn't count any of it towards her time. I thought the 1900 was a two-pilot plane but maybe they have a single pilot exemption if it's flown under Part 91. She was obviously upset about this. Don't know if she was hired or not.

If you later go to an interview, you better know that King Air inside and out. Ask your employer to send you to FlightSafety or SimCom. That way you can show an airline you were trained and flew as a crewmember, not someone who just sits there and talks on the radio.

 

[350DRIVER]

A friend of mine recently interviewed at a regional. One of the pilots in his group had around 700ME, half as a copilot in a B-1900 used as a corporate shuttle. From what she told him, they gave her a hard time about the SIC time she'd logged and told her she couldn't count any of it towards her time. I thought the 1900 was a two-pilot plane but maybe they have a single pilot exemption if it's flown under Part 91. She was obviously upset about this. Don't know if she was hired or not.

The 1900 is pretty much a single pilot airplane for most purposes, not very different from a King Air 350. He!!, at one point in time not too long ago the 350 & 1900 type were the same. The 1900 can be flown single pilot if the captain has the appropriate type rating. In Phoenix the other day enroute back east I saw a "shuttle" guy 91 flying it single pilot. Some of the Great Lakes pilots (mostly management pilots) have the appropriate type to fly the "super-sized" 350 <1900> single pilot. Main reason for this is for MX and ferry flights. CommuttyAir also has some that have the same single pilot types.

If you later go to an interview, you better know that King Air inside and out. Ask your employer to send you to FlightSafety or SimCom. That way you can show an airline you were trained and flew as a crewmember, not someone who just sits there and talks on the radio.

I would highly doubt that this non-required sic is going to be going to any FSI or SimCom anytime soon for B100 training, I think he!! woulf have a better chance of freezing over first.

the company ops specs state that if the PIC deems necessary, an SIC must be on board,

That right there should have pointed the above out !!


3 5 0

 

[trfenwyd]

my .02$

here's my take and sombody please correct me if this sounds insane.

if you have pc check as sic in a king air 200, this allows you to fly (manipulate the controls) on 135 legs. PIC. If you don't touch anything (radio operator) then don't log it as sic, but log the entire trip as total time. Any flaws with that?

blue skies

 

[Crizz]

Someone correct me...

If on the empty 91 legs, you dont even need to be sole manipulator assumed that you or the other guy are both MEIs.

Is this correct?

 

[mike1mc]

I know this issue has been beat to death, and maybe a search of previous threads will help clarify the issue. One thing needs to be made clear...

For IFR, passenger-carrying operations under Part 135 an SIC is required for flight. Your company's Operations Specifications A015 and FAR 135.105 allow for use of an approved autopilot IN LIEU of an SIC.

Although many discussions and arguements can be made whether this time is "valuable" or "loggable", I beleive it is as long as the SIC is acting as a crewmember and not just a seat warmer. This means attending training, the ability to fly the aircraft as PIC if needed, and completion of all applicable checkrides.
From what I understand, FSDOs are cracking down on those seat warmers as mentioned above. The thinking is that operators are taking low timers and throwing them in the right seat to operate radios. Passengers are at ease thinking that two "qualified" pilots are up front. This person is NOT a true SIC, as they would be useless in an emergency. Log the SIC time if you meet all the requirements and do more than just talk on the radio.

With that being said, the opposition begins below....

 

[flx757]

it is very cut and dried, If the aircraft is certtified for 2 pilots or is operated under a part (i.e. 135 or ops specs that require a SIC in lieu of an autopilot, and you have received the required training specified in CFR 14 Part 61.55, thenyou may log SIC time.

Tje keys are an SIC is required if the flight is operated under a Part of the CFR of the Ops Spes of the company (insurance requirements, etc. don't count), and you have recieved the required training specified in 61.55, then you may log SIC time. Otherswise, if you do, be prepared to explain how and why you were think you were legal to do so.

 

[charlie1]

Listen junior pilots (less than 2000 hrs). don't try to beat the system by fudging your hours. sic, pic, widebody (Challenger)-NOT, heavy iron (Gulfstream)-NOT, those terms are used by professionals that actually fly those type of planes in the legal capacity of sic or pic. while i'm on the subject let me clarify a few things for those who pound their chests about the aircraft you fly! widebody aircraft: 767 being the smallets "widebody", DC-10, L-1011, 777, 747's. are you getting it now. Heavy iron: anything over 255,000 lbs as per the AIM, 757, DC-8, 767, 777, and the famous 747. a king air does not require sic. to log sic you don't have to be sole manipulator of the controls. if you are the designated sic for that flight on your dispatch release you can log all the time as sic including total time, multiengine time, even if you don't touch the controls on that flight. read up on your FAR's. and put your time in just like everyone else. by attempting to cheat your way into the cockpit by logging "sic" time you are only making it difficult for the captain that has to baby sit you when and if you fall through the cracks of the selection process. by the way, there is no difference between a 402C and a 402B model aircraft. to the real airline professionals it's the same freakin' aircraft!!! wing tip tanks or no wing tip tanks, come on get real. airline interview panels want to know if you a professional...and by trying to fudge the numbers your looking like a fool.

 

[trfenwyd]

charlie1,

for those of us "low timers" these are legit questions. I have my do and cp telling me how to log it and it doesn't seem right. if you wanna bitch and complain, save it for those kind of threads. I'm sure you could find something good look under "MESA"

As for everything else, we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't come out of the womb with 6500 hours.

 

[flx757]

trfenwyd,

Keep in mind there are "junior" pilots with 6500 hours. It's all relative, and the pilot who thinks he knows everything, has ceased to continue to learn, and has finally reached the ranks of "real airline professional", is the pilot I least want to fly with,

61.55 is pretty clear on what training is required for SIC, and an SIC is only required if the aircraft is type certificated for more than one pilot or the flight is operated under a regulation requiring more than one pilot.

 

[texanpilot]

Definetly cant log SIC. However, does the PIC have a Multi-CFI? If so, log it as dual received. I have 46 hours KingAir dual received. It will increase your multi, multi-turbine, and total. But if you log KingAir SIC, an interviewer will give you a very wierd look someday.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Definetly cant log SIC. However, does the PIC have a Multi-CFI? If so, log it as dual received. I have 46 hours KingAir dual received. It will increase your multi, multi-turbine, and total. But if you log KingAir SIC, an interviewer will give you a very wierd look someday.

Texan,

I was a bit skeptical of this practice. Has the issue ever been brought up in your interviews? Thanks.


Mr. I.

 

[flx757]

Definetly cant log SIC. However, does the PIC have a Multi-CFI? If so, log it as dual received. I have 46 hours KingAir dual received. It will increase your multi, multi-turbine, and total. But if you log KingAir SIC, an interviewer will give you a very wierd look someday.

There are plenty of instances when the flight is operated under a regulation that requires an SIC, such as when an SIC is required in lieu of an auopilot, or the company ops specs require an SIC and he/she has received the required traininig under 61.55. Then is is perfectly legal to log it as SIC time.

I suggest you read up on your regs before making a blanket statement that you "definitely can't log it as SIC".