King Air needs Copilot? Insurance?

[LimoDriverG1159]

I heard that King Airs or perhaps all turbine multi planes need to have a co-pilot to meet insurance. Came out with new rule in June 06. Is there any truth to this?

 

[aviator1x1]

King Air Co pilots

Could be some insurance industry requirement.
Our company started using warm bodies in the right seat on all flights regardless of their Part 135 status for insurance requirements. Before then, we got dispatched on single pilot trips even in the B350s. Now even our C90s get right seaters. I would not mind doing some research as to how much charter companies save when they hire employees to sit in the right seat of various King Airs.

 

[MauleSkinner]

A LOT of King Air operators have been required (or set the requirement themselves for rate reasons) for a number of years...haven't heard anything industry-wide, though.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Mr Wu]

No, you cannot log it as SIC.

Just thought I'd get a jump on the real question.

 

[NW_Pilot]

No, you cannot log it as SIC.

Just thought I'd get a jump on the real question.

Well ya could he the person manipulating the controls was dawning a hood!

 

[minitour]

Well ya could he the person manipulating the controls was dawning a hood!

Correct as you are, I feel a debate coming.

:smash:

-mini

 

[nosehair]

'cept ya can't do training on a 135 flight.


de bate: de stuff you put on de hook.

 

[ksu_aviator]

No, you cannot log it as SIC.

Just thought I'd get a jump on the real question.

True, but with exceptions. If the autopilot was deferred or the pilot required an SIC by regulation then SIC time can be logged if the copilot has an SIC checkride.

 

[A Squared]

"........If the autopilot was deferred............SIC time can be logged if the copilot has an SIC checkride."

Not generally true. Under part 135 passenger carrying IFR operations, this is true, a co-ilot is required. Under Part 135 VFR ops, cargo ops, and under part 91 the co-pilot is not required, so no SIC time may be logged.

 

[IFollowRoads]

Not generally true. Under part 135 passenger carrying IFR operations, this is true, a co-ilot is required. Under Part 135 VFR ops, cargo ops, and under part 91 the co-pilot is not required, so no SIC time may be logged.

Then make the captain wear foggles ffs!

 

[iflyjets4food]

Ok, here's a new spin on the question. Let's say that a pilot has a part 135 SIC checkride and goes on a Part 135 trip on a King Air 90. Said pilot is legal to be there, and is also legal to fly the airplane on the trip. The airplane has an approved autopilot that COULD be, and often is, used in lieu of a SIC. The regs say that when the operation required a SIC, a qualified pilot can log SIC time. Part 135 regs say that all flights need a SIC. They also say that you may use the autopilot in place of the SIC. The way I read it, with a SIC on board, the autopilot becomes a 'nice-to-have' item. My two questions are:

1. Can the pilot log SIC time when he's along?

2. Can the pilot log PIC time when he's the sole manipulator of the controls?

 

[Bandit60]

Ok, here's a new spin on the question. Let's say that a pilot has a part 135 SIC checkride and goes on a Part 135 trip on a King Air 90. Said pilot is legal to be there, and is also legal to fly the airplane on the trip. The airplane has an approved autopilot that COULD be, and often is, used in lieu of a SIC. The regs say that when the operation required a SIC, a qualified pilot can log SIC time. Part 135 regs say that all flights need a SIC. They also say that you may use the autopilot in place of the SIC. The way I read it, with a SIC on board, the autopilot becomes a 'nice-to-have' item. My two questions are:

1. Can the pilot log SIC time when he's along?

2. Can the pilot log PIC time when he's the sole manipulator of the controls?

With the conditions you have set... the answer to both questions is yes.

Here is another spin. Lets say that a person charters the King Air and says they want a second pilot and pays for the second pilot. According to the feds this flight now requires a SIC and all of the conditions above would apply. This has actually happened to me years ago and had a ruling on this by the FAA.

 

[FlierDude]

Years ago, we had an LOA from the FSDO allowing our 'insurance-required' FO's to log time under 135. Wouldn't hurt to ask your POI.

 

[IFollowRoads]

Back in the day, I used to swap legs with the captain in the B200 I was working on. I had my multi-comm-instrument and my high altitude endorsement was done in the B200. I was sole manipulator for around 120 hours, flew about a dozen instrument approaches for around 6 actual IFR, 20 night. On legs we didn't have passengers, he'd have me do emergency descents, he'd pull a throttle back on takeoff, he even shut one down on me during a VOR approach during actual IFR. I didn't log the time, since his MEI had expired and I wasn't the guy who signed for the aircraft. Can I log this time in accordance with FAR 61.51(e)(i)?

 

[IFollowRoads]

Called the FSDO for the answer.

 

[SLUF4]

I had the question myself about SIC time in a king air a while back. Under 135 pax ops even though the company has the autopilot exemption, it does not mean that you cannot log SIC time. From what I understood, the exemption is more of a dispatchability tool in case you don't have an SIC. Of course, you have to have a valid 135 SIC ride to log the SIC time.

 

[A Squared]

Ok, here's a new spin on the question. Let's say that a pilot has a part 135 SIC checkride and goes on a Part 135 trip on a King Air 90. Said pilot is legal to be there, and is also legal to fly the airplane on the trip. The airplane has an approved autopilot that COULD be, and often is, used in lieu of a SIC. The regs say that when the operation required a SIC, a qualified pilot can log SIC time. Part 135 regs say that all flights need a SIC. They also say that you may use the autopilot in place of the SIC. The way I read it, with a SIC on board, the autopilot becomes a 'nice-to-have' item. My two questions are:

1. Can the pilot log SIC time when he's along?

2. Can the pilot log PIC time when he's the sole manipulator of the controls?

#1, yes. There is an official legal interpretation which addresses this situation. It's been posted on this board before. I'll see if I can dig it up when I get more time.

#2 yes. If you are sole manipulator of the controls of an airplane for which you are rated, you may log PIC, period. It doesn't matter whether it's part 135 or 91 or 121. Part 61 controls what you put in your logbook, not Part 91,135,121, etc.

 

[Canucit]

isnt that for international flights or the new sic rule

 

[iflyjets4food]

isnt that for international flights or the new sic rule

?????