King Air C-90 Info

[Cmdr Taggart]

I have an independently wealthy student who is in the market for a King Air model. His price range looks like it will put him in an early 1970’s C-90 model. Since I am nothing but a good piston driver, I no very little about Kings. Is there a book on King Airs? Or if people with prior experience in the 90s series King Air could fill in some basic information for me. Cruise speed, useful load, estimate fuel burn at cruise, and basic handling characteristics of an early C-90. My student will be hiring a pilot/instructor for the airplane when they get it, I just helping out with the early basics. Thanks in advance for the information.

 

[Rick1128]

He will find that the 90 is a very forgiving aircraft. The PT6 has a reputation of being almost bullet proof.

A couple of points though. What part of the country are you in? The C may not be the best a/c for where he is or is going to fly. If he is going to do a lot of high/hot, I would suggest at least looking at an E90. It will give you a little bit better high/hot perfomance. Also he might find a problem with insurance. Most of the insurance companies will require an approved school. FSI, Simuflite or simcom.

He will also need to seriously consider having a prepurchase inspection done on what ever aircraft he does consider buying. Once you start getting in this class of aircraft, mistakes start getting expensive. I suggest using a shop that has a lot, and I do mean A LOT of King Air experience for the pre-purchase.
Do not give heavy consideration to paint and interior, except to make use it is all there and working properly. The paint and interior can be easily taken care of.

 

[Rick1128]

Forgot to mention. The aircraft is a straight forward aircraft on the handling are. No bad vices. After all it has a Bonanza wing. Old technolgy but it works well. Steering during taxi is a little heavy, but no big deal. It is a matter of getting use to it. Biggest problem is landing gear. If the aircraft has the hydraulic conversion, that is a plus. If not, it is worth consideration. The original system is an electric motor via a bicycle chain. More than one pilot has landing with the nose gear partway up because the chain popped the sprocket. An important preflight item. Don't put off getting it tightened.

Flight planning. When I was flying the 90's I used 90 gal/hr 10,000 ft and below and 70 gal/hr from 10,000 to 15,000 and above 15,000 I used 60 gal/hr. I am conservative when it comes to fuel planning. It starts running out of steam in the low 20's. And I flight planned at 200 knots.

It's not a barn burner. Not overly flashy. But it does the job and is fairly comfortable.

 

[flywithruss]

My 90 experience is quite limited (I'm a 200 driver) but I'll second some of the prior comments. King Airs are stable, straightforward, good-flying airplanes. The PT6 is probably the best turboprop engine out there, with tons in service and easy access to maintenance.

I can guarantee that most any insurance company is going to want school ... Simcom, Simuflite, or FSI, so make sure your guy plans on that budget-wise.

A pre-buy is an absolute necessity, especially on an older airplane. Stevens Aviation and Piedmont Hawthorne both do a lot of King Air work; Stevens takes care of our airplane and they do very well, although they're not inexpensive.

Agree that P&I should be a minor consideration ... that can be upgraded later. I'll offer a little plug to Sky Harbour Aviation (Goderich, Ontario) for the paint ... they painted our 200 this year and they do fantastic work.

Best of luck ...

R

 

[Cmdr Taggart]

Thanks for the information. My student will be flying in Southern Califorina mostly. Trips between San Diego and San Francisco. He is planning on atteneding FS when he gets the airplane and hiring a pilot with King Air experiance for a year or so to overcome the insurance difficulties.

I have a few more spec questions: What is the useable load, and IFR range with full fuel (standard tanks)? What is the differance between the C-90 and the E-90s?

Thanks again

 

[Rick1128]

The major difference between the C and the E is the engines. They produce the same power, but the E's engine is flat rated. Therefore it can produce more power at higher altitudes and hotter temps. Considering the terrain in your area, I suggest that your student find AFM's for both aircraft and do take-off performance for some of the higher airports he plans on using. He will have to consider that places like Reno and Tahoe are really not that far away in a 90. At least he needs to be looking that way and understanding that there will be limitations no matter which aircraft he picks. Turbine aircraft, especially when you add airport altitude and/or temperature are not a fill the seats, tanks and baggage comparts and go type aircraft.

It has been awhile since I have flown a 90, but I do recall you have about 384 gallons of fuel. I don't remember right off hand what the useful load was for the C or E I flew, but remember it will vary depending on the aircraft and its equipment. But I do remember doing trips of four hours with 5 passenger and baggage.

Hope that helps.

 

[501261]

In my opinion King Airs are the best turboprops ever made. Having said that I would be very careful buying one especially the 90 series, there are simply too many different options to know for sure if you are getting a good deal or not.

Consider this; there are A90's, B90's, C90's, C90A's, C90B's, and F90's. On all those airplanes you can have PT6-20, PT6-20A, PT6-21 or PT6-28 engines. They all produce between 500-550 hp. In addition the ORIGINAL overhaul on a PT6 engine is 2500 hours, MOST King Airs have had the AD done that increases the overhaul period to 3000 or 3600 hours. Bottom-line, you're probably better of hiring true, professional broker that knows the differences. Bubba at the FBO (who's bought a couple of Mooney's) isn't going to cut it.

Your questions: Usable load about 3300#'s, fuel capacity is 2563#s or 382 gallons. So with full fuel you can carry about 800#'s. IFR range is around 1000nm, obviously depending on winds and altitude. If you're hopping around down low, you have about 3 1/2 hours worth of fuel, if you can get up to the mid 20's you can go for about 5 1/2 hours. The difference between 90's is almost not noticeable, fuel tanks and some electrics, are about all I can think of. They all perform the same IF you they have equal engines (i.e. an A90 with -28's will perform the same as a C90B with -21's).

A trip from CRQ to OAK, will take you 2:02 using SID's and Stars, you'll burn about 140 gallons (S. Cal Jet A average $2.50 per gallon) cost about $350 for a 1 way trip to OAK.

The problem with going to school is that there are almost no 90 Sims around, FS LGB has a 200 Sims, so for the most part you will be playing in the 200 Sim then taking an hour of differences for 90 stuff (which is pretty worthless), I think FS ICT has a C90B Sim that is level D and has EFIS, etc, but what good is EFIS if your A/C doesn't have it.

For maintainance Raytheon has a facility in VNY, but the better one to go to is in LAS. 200 hour inspections cost about $16,000, props cost $12,000 (I can't rememeber the time interval, Hot Sections cost $50,000 @1500 hours and Overhauls cost $100,000 at 3000 hours (depending on what AD's have been complied with this can be 2500 hours to 3600 hours), in addition you can put the engines on the MORE program elliminating Overhauls (don't buy a King Air on the MORE program, its not a good thing).

Flying in SOCAL look for an airplane that has TCAS, hell, INSIST on it!

Insurance will cost a minimum of $11,000 annually, going up drastically if owner flown!

The 90's are all great airplanes, Cmd Taggart, you should really try to get that job! Absolutely no reason you shouldn’t, just hire an ICP to get you through the first couple months.

Good luck, selling the airplane, people love to TALK about buying an airplane, but most never sign the dotted line. Something about putting up the money makes the BS walk!

 

[prpjt]

C90

The C90 is a good plane if you don't need to do a bunch of hot/high. Your useful load will be around 2700lbs or so ( that's a guess based on our C90B) depending on equipment, 500lbs more if its a Raisbeck converted plane. The older King Airs are going to fly mostly in the low to mid teens as far as altitude. The B90 I flew ten years ago had a cruise speed of 210, and was a pretty weak climber.
384 gallons of fuel. Swag method of trip planning - 600lbs first hour, 500lbs second hour, 450lbs thereafter. I think it was a 4.3 differential pressurization.
Difference between the C and E are engines. PT6-20 on the C and -28 on the E. I think the E may have a little more wing, another guess. Shy away from anything with the -21 engine.
A prebuy inspection on a King Air isn't a suggestion, it's mandatory. Common practice is to have Phase 1 - 4 inspection as a prebuy. Who pays for what is negotiated beforehand. Our prebuy on our last King Air ( Phase 1-4 at Raytheon) cost the seller about $30K.
Conklin and de Decker reports are a good source of information on cost.You can buy them through a link on ASO. Engines are 3500 hour TBO and around $150K per side for overhaul. Hot section inspection at 1750 hrs and around $18K a side if all is well. Add $19K per side if it needs new blades. Closely check the status of the 5 and 6 year overhaul inspect items as they can run a maintenance bill up quickly.Hope this helps.

 

[JetPilot500]

Consider this; there are A90's, B90's, C90's, C90A's, C90B's, and F90's. On all those airplanes you can have PT6-20, PT6-20A, PT6-21 or PT6-28 engines. They all produce between 500-550 hp.

Just to clarify things a little.

The King Air F-90 has PT6A-135 engines that produce 750 hp per side. So if performance is what you need the F-90 is outstanding. It is the best King Air I ever flew (I Never flew the 300 or 350).

The F90's tend to be a little pricey. But you get a lot of bang for your buck. I've had climb rates of 3000 FPM+. Cruise about 40 Knots faster than a C90 at 270 KTAS. The ability to fly at 250 Knots INDICATED below 10,000' (in level flight) to keep up with jet traffic at high density airports (Even the 200 cannot do that). Single Engine climb is great. Runway performance is great.

If I ever buy a King Air for personal use someday , the F-90 is the one for me!

BTW, if you're not sure what a F-90 looks like, it is the only 90 with a T-Tail. Can be mistaken for a 200 until you realize its missing a few windows and is a little short.


Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[prpjt]

Correction

The C90 has -21 engines and the A90 had -20's. The -21 is a great engine, the -20 is tough to get parts for and more expensive to maintain. I'll try not to post right after I wake up.

 

[501261]

Re: Correction

The C90 has -21 engines and the A90 had -20's. The -21 is a great engine, the -20 is tough to get parts for and more expensive to maintain. I'll try not to post right after I wake up.

That's exactly why I said get a broker, those are the "stock engines". What is actually installed might be something completely different and the price should vary accordingly!

For instance you can put -135 (750hp) on an A90, making the A90 the best performing King Air on the market because of its 9300# MTOW. That is called the Taurus conversion. On the other hand I have heard that some cheapskate put -20’s (500hp) on his C90B when it came up for overhaul.

 

[Cmdr Taggart]

Thanks for all the info, he will be getting a broker with king Air buying experience, but is nice to have some information so you can ask the right questions and have some idea what the broker is talking about. Being the supposed "all knowing flight instructor" he seems to turn to me for questions that I just do not know, like tell me about a King Air.

From what I can gather engines under the MORE program are not a good thing, is that true?

 

[501261]

As a pilot, I've flown with engines on the MORE program and felt that they performed fine. As a manager I have never put an engine on the MORE program, so I really don't know that much about the administrative workings of the MORE program.

Basically what the MORE program does is eliminates the need for engine Overhauls. You pay the MORE program a certain amount of money to get on the program and a few bucks for each flight hour and they give you an STC that you can theoretically run the engines indefinitely. As a pilot all you do is record the cruise parameters and fax them in to the MORE program, and they'll occasionally respond and say you need a compressor wash or a hot section, or something.

In my opinion it’s a good program if you own the airplane and haven't budgeted properly or for some other reason can't pay the $100,000 for overhaul. I would not buy an airplane with engines that are on the MORE program primarily because the difference in opinion on the value of the engines. The sellers tend think that the engines are still worth money, whereas I believe that the engines are worthless.

 

[ultrarunner]

One of the best things going is a stock C90 with run-out engines. At this point, put a pair of -34's on it, along with the Frakes pitot nacelles. Also include the Raisbeck 4 blade props and strakes. The latter two get you a 10,100 mtogw up from the original 9650.

The -34's are 750 horse engs flat rated back to the original value. The frakes nacells get rid of the smile cowls and also eliminate bleed air for the nacelles in favor of boots. Very nice when you need to run ice, and you don't have to heat up the air going into the engs.

If I recall, only two airplanes were ever converted to this configuration. I flew one of them. An incredible machine.

 

[Rick1128]

MORE

From my experience on the MORE program, I would not consider it. The paperwork can be a pain in the A**! And if you miss sending it in you are dropped off the program. Which can get expensive. From what I have been told by my maintenance people is that when the engines are dropped off the program or the program tells you to overhaul them, basicly you jack up the data plate and put a new engine under it. For all intents and purposes all the life limited parts are scrap. That can get expensive in a real hurry. I would be real careful in going that route. And the MORE engines I have run were very unimpressive. They couldn't make power on a warm day, if you got out and pushed. It will depend on the engines and who operated them and how.

However, I have operated Twin Otters with -20's and -27's that the overhaul times were "on condition", basicly an early MORE program. We had engines that had 16,000 hours since the last overhual. But they were flying 300 hours a month and there were mechanics on staff.

Personally, I would stay away from the inlet boots. The hot inlet is a much simpler way to go. Single pilot IFR is hard enough without adding workload.

The King Air 200 sim in Houston, used to be convertable to a C90. I don't know if that is still the case.

Check on Ebay, there are King Air books that pop up from time to time.

 

[JetPilot500]

One of the best things going is a stock C90 with run-out engines. At this point, put a pair of -34's on it, along with the Frakes pitot nacelles. Also include the Raisbeck 4 blade props and strakes. The latter two get you a 10,100 mtogw up from the original 9650.....

I don't know a thing about this mod, but if I were to ever buy an airplane it would be a runout one. I'd look for a plane that needs everything including Paint, Interior, Engines, Props (if required), Avionics, etc... However, it must have a decent maintenance history, with no major damage history. This is probally a plane you could get for a great price. Of course you'll have to spend some money. But if you buy a plane all decked out for $1M you could probally buy one that needs work for $500k. Now, spend another $500k, and you got a machine that is setup exactly how YOU want it with zero time engines. Your colors, your leather, your avionics package. Even if it ends up costing a little more than one that is already done, you got the machine you want.

IMO, definately the way to go.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[Kingairrick]

NBAA says tom allot about $90K for paint and interior on a c90a. I don't know if that is exactly a small consideration. I would pick up the Business and Commercial Aviation, August 2002 issue. It breaks down all the costs associated with many different King Air models. It will make you look like the all knowing flight instructor that you are deep inside.

By the way, I fly a 99 C90B. I concur with the comments above. It flies like a big bonanza. Go for the job!