King Air 200 SIC - Pt 91

[TDK90]

Guys

If I take this job, will I run into problems logging my time when I fly and justifying that time in the future. It looks like the insurance company is going to require 2 pilots. I have 1100 TT and 150 ME.

 

[Buckeye]

"It Depends"

Well it all depends, if you go to a factory school..ie Flight Safety for PIC training then no. But if you just hop in there and start logging it from day one as PIC then yes. There is no SIC in a King Air unless you fly Part 135 and their Ops Specs require...but that is another story. So Part 91 there is no SIC, many airlines might give you a hard time depending on how you present it. If the guy whom hires you is a CFII/MEI then he can give you many hours of dual training, a high altitude endorsement, and a test over limitations..systems...etc...then that would suffice for you log PIC in it. Sorry if it isn't very helpful, but the universal answer in aviation is usaully "it depends". Good Luck I hope you get the job, the B200 is a great plane to fly.

 

[MMO 0.705]

I agree.....I say go for it but watch how you log it. There is no reason why you can't log PIC in the airplane if you have a high altitude endorsement and some training when you are the flying pilot. However, when you aren't flying.....I wouldn't log it as SIC because there is no SIC for a kingair when part 91.

 

[avratdwc]

I agree with being careful about how you log it. If you are planning on going to the airlines and you have PIC in your log make sure you can give PIC answers on the aircraft. Alot of interviews will ask questions on you latest AC or advanced AC so watch out. Eventhough the BE-20 is a great airplane (my favorite so far) it can still bite you. Watch over-torqueing, 250kts below 10, 200 kts in BCD, V speeds and systems. If you go to FSI, try for TOL and see if you can get Greg Key for your instructor. He knows his Sh*t. Good luck, PM me with any questions. CYA

Avrat

 

[AA717driver]

I'd log every other leg as pic and buy your Capt. a case of beer before you go to an interview so he can say you swapped legs! Because you can bet your a** that the kid riding shotgun in the King Air next to you is logging it all!TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

dont log King Air SIC time, just dont do it...

Just ask to get checked out as a PIC with the company, not that you will be THE PIC of the flight, but having a "checkout" as simple as a company "line check" will make it all look better..be enthusiastic, know your stuff, try and get left seat on all empty legs and next thing you know you will be the actual PIC.

for now either dont log it at all (my suggestion) or lie and log it PIC time anyways....just not SIC.

 

[msw]

If you are the sole manipulator of the controls, and are rated for a ME aircraft, then there is no legal reason NOT to log it as PIC, if you are flying it. You don't even need a high alt endorsement to do this, though you should get one. (Numerous previous discussions on what is required to "log" PIC vs. what is required to "act as PIC" can be found on various aviation boards.) If it is legal to log it, just log it. What's the worst that could happen? You might have to point out the pertinent FAR to some interview board?

But don't log SIC on Part 91 flights; no legal way to to it in the BE20 for Part 91. Other good advice was to learn the airplane. You should be able to at least find a copy of the FlightSafety Manual for the BE20; read it and learn it, it ain't all that difficult. Also, if your REAL pilot goes to FlightSafety (i.e. he is a paying customer), they (FlightSafety) will usually let a second (non-paying) company pilot in the right seat of the sim with the paying customer flies. They may even let you sit in with the real pilot in the classroom when he goes through a recurrent. Doesn't hurt to ask. (Anyone know if SimCom will do this too?)

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I agree with MSW. I flew as a company and insurance required SIC for a Part 91 corporate aircraft management company and logged all the time that I actually manipulated the controls. In the remarks section of my logbook I wrote something to the effect of "PIC by 14 CFR Part 1 definition only--sole manipulator of flight controls". It was not an issue during my ACA interview, but I also had enough recip multi time to meet the minimums without even considering the King Air time. I still studied the AFM and was prepared to answer questions, but they never even asked...they only asked me a couple of Baron questions since that's what most of my multi time is in. I was in a similar position, with about 1100 TT and less than 100 multi when I started with the company and it all worked out fine.

Thankfully I am going back to work for the same company one furlough later and am looking forward to flying the 200 again. It's a great airplane to fly and is fairly forgiving for somebody just getting into turbine equipment. Best of luck!

 

[Detroitpilot]

King Air 200 SIC - 91

I fly part time for a 91 BE 200 operator. Although I have never been to school on the airplane, I have a systems study CD, and review it periodically, as trips for a part timer like me are sometimes few and far between. The captains I fly with all don't log their time anymore (except for recency of experience) , so although I consider them PIC as far as command of the aircraft is concerned, by default, I can log PIC time in the aircraft, and yes, I do have my high alt. endorsement also. There's not many avenues for a non-MEI guy to build multi-turbine time and still make a decent wage, so this works out perfect. It's a great airplane to fly, very uncomplicated (exept maybe the fuel system) and very forgiving. Of course there's no avenue to log SIC time unless it's on a 135 with a SIC provision, so forget about it under 91. Good luck!

 

[TDK90]

Thanks for all your replies. The job is still on, maybe now in a C90 or 100 rather than the 200. It looks like the insurance company will require about 100 hrs of experience in type. My new boss is happy to pay for this along with Simcom training.

Where would I find a reputable King Air instructor who would be prepared to ride along with me to meet the insurance requirements?

 

[msw]

Where are you based at?

 

[105viking]

if you are going to simcom, just take your airplane with you. i have done this twice and simcom has been happy to provide qualified cfi's.

 

[fly26]

You can log all the time of "sole manipulator" PIC per part 61.

However, if your goal is the airlines, they will not recognize this time. Just about every major and national airline app I have filled out specifies that they want PIC flight time as specified in Part 1. You must have final authority and ultimately responsible for the aircraft to log Part 1 PIC time.

Good luck to you.

 

[TDK90]

Where are you based at?

Probably SNA

 

[DruDown]

You don't even need a high alt endorsement to do this, though you should get one.

Not to be a nit picket, but to act and log PIC time in an aircraft with a certificated service ceiling above FL250 you must have a high altitude endorsement.

I do not know the service ceiling of the BE20, but if it is above 250, then if you want to log it, you must have the endorsement.

Dru

 

[msw]

Drudown, you are incorrect.

To ***LOG*** PIC time in the King Air B200, as the "sole manipulator of the controls", you do NOT need a high altitude endorsement. Of course, there better be someone else in the other seat who is qualified, and is, ACTING as PIC, because you cannot ACT as PIC in the BE20 unless you have the high altitude endorsement. There are numerous areas on this board and others (like "Doc's FAR forum" on www.propilot.com and John Lynch's pages which are somehwere on the FAA's website) that go into the differences between "logging PIC vs. acting as PIC" ad infinitum, which are pretty interesting and explain this concept in detail.